I Feel; Therefore I Am
The era of absolutist reason is drawing to a close. It is high time to draw conclusions from that fact. - Czech President Vaclav Havel
Nowhere is it easier to find verification of Havel’s statement than in popular political activity around the globe. In the West, for example, some think they are making an intelligent political statement by carrying “Bushitler” signs, when all they are doing is enjoying their own emotionalism. We’ve been seeing their equivalent in East Asia during the past two weeks with the demonstrations and riots in China and South Korea. There have been some ugly displays in China since the end of last month, abetted by a Chinese government that is cynically manipulating popular emotion.
That the Chinese protestors are being encouraged and supported by the government should be obvious even to the casual observer. To start, try this article in the People’s Daily for March 30 that reports what ostensibly is a grassroots boycott of Asahi Beer because of that company’s alleged financial support for textbooks whitewashing Japan’s wartime behavior. The folks in Jilin Province “found out” about this support and started boycotting Asahi, as breathlessly reported by the People’s Daily stenog—uh, journalist.
This article claims that Asahi and Mitsubishi financially supported “the textbook compilation committee” when it ran out of funds. Perhaps I should be more indulgent with their problems with the English language and overlook this ill-chosen expression. But different Japanese publishers produce textbooks that are submitted to the Ministry of Education for approval, which then suggests changes. Also, this is only one history book written by one company, and the previous edition was used by only 0.01% of Japanese students. Funny how those facts don’t seem to be fit to print in the People’s Daily. If we didn’t know any better, we might think this was the only history textbook used in Japan and all the students were being indoctrinated with government propaganda. Maybe the reporter doesn’t realize how educational systems function outside the PRC.
This reporter, who comes off a bit like Jimmy Olsen, seems to have worn out some shoe leather discovering the response of the “common people” in barrooms and supermarkets. Most reporters above the cub level would check with Asahi to see if the report about their financial support was true.
Asahi denies it, as you can read here. In fact, they issued a statement in China.
(They said) they “had not provided financial resources to the Japanese Society for History Textbook Reform, which edited the controversial textbook, as claimed by the media reports. Asahi’s view of history is in line with a 1995 statement issued by then Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama, which expressed Japan’s heartfelt apology for bringing damage and pain to the people of China.”
Their word against the Chinese, some might say, and while that’s a fair criticism, I suspect Asahi is telling the truth. (If someone can send me a link to an English- or Japanese-language report that did not originate in China or South Korea and that directly confirms Asahi’s support, I’ll take back that statement.) The whole incident smacks of rumor fueling emotions, which in turn spark off demonstrations.
While the “common people” give vent to their emotions, the government is taking advantage of the situation to manipulate events. Exhibit A is the People’s Daily article. More evidence appeared in videos taken of the Beijing demonstration during the weekend. Most of those demonstrators were college students or young people, yet all the signs they carried were professionally printed. There were several varieties, all well designed, with different colors. (At the demonstrations I attended as a college student, larger than these, nearly all the signs were handmade.) There were people who brought cartons of bottled water to street corners and handed them out to the demonstrators for free. I wonder who the philanthropists were. Finally, a Chinese security official was caught on video pleading with a college demonstrator to rein in his charges, who had deviated from the approved route and demonstrated more than the assigned two hours.
Why would the Chinese government be interested in arousing and channeling popular emotion? For starters, the same reason Middle Eastern despots over the years aroused and channeled popular discontent by allowing demonstrations against America and Israel—to deflect attention from their own brutal anti-democratic regimes. Channeling the anger over a lack of political power against foreign elements is a good way to prevent the focus from falling on oneself. When the Japanese started showing signs of getting irritated, however, the demonstrations stopped, as if a spigot were shut off. Can’t afford to alienate the Japanese so much that it causes economic harm.
With these emotional outbursts fueled by wild rumor and government prodding, it wasn’t long before some in South Korea also got that urge to get out and demonstrate, as the photo shows. (That’s Japan Asahi Beer they’re talking about in the sign with Koizumi’s picture.) You know how some people seem to enjoy a good cry? There are some Koreans who seem to enjoy getting angry about perceived slights by foreigners. These are the same people who caused Hugh Grant to apologize for a comment about having to use bar soap instead of shampoo in South Korea, and Leonardo diCaprio to apologize for an anti-Korean remark he never made.
The current South Korean government is playing popular emotion, too, with President Roh’s manipulation just as cynical but no less tawdry. He recently remarked that the textbook/Takeshima-Dokto controversy has now nullified all previous Japanese apologies and dialed the blame-o-meter back to the beginning. It’s as if he thinks foreign diplomacy is a game of yuttnori. (Yuttnori is a traditional Korean board game in which players are knocked off their spaces and sent back to the starting point, as in the American game Sorry.)
It’s ironic that East Asians would allow emotions to dominate their lives this way. These are the same people whose oldest philosophical and religious traditions stress that people should detach themselves from their emotions and understand that emotions are most often the result of conditioning–not one’s identity. For too many, however, strong emotions act as false confirmation that they too are alive and have a role in the issues of the day.
It’s a tragedy, both on a personal and societal level, but there doesn’t seem to be much anyone can do about it. If the Japanese banned the single textbook, renounced all the disputed territory, and apologized once a week for the next five years, the same people would find something else to get upset about. The anger at the Japanese is not the wellspring; it’s the intoxication with emotion.
As Havel warned, it’s high time we drew conclusions from that fact.
Also, this is only one history book written by one company, and the previous edition was used by only 0.01% of Japanese students. Funny how those facts don’t seem to be fit to print in the People’s Daily.
I love how this statistic is used over and over again ignoring the fact that the history book became a public best seller with over 1,000,000 copies sold. Or how you seem to forget that other books and the like glorifying the military past of Japan and writing off the atrocities as fiction or grossly overstated are runaway best sellers as well.
It’s a tragedy, both on a personal and societal level, but there doesn’t seem to be much anyone can do about it. If the Japanese banned the single textbook, renounced all the disputed territory, and apologized once a week for the next five years, the same people would find something else to get upset about. The anger at the Japanese is not the wellspring; it’s the intoxication with emotion.
I call bullshit on this. I place a great deal of the blame on Koizumi and his refusal to address the issues as well as his continued visits to the Yasukuni Shrine.
These recent protests could have easily been avoided or at least calmed greatly by a Japanese prime minister who tried to understand his neighbors. Instead, he gives his tacit approval to the actions of right-wing radicals in Japan.
It’s ironic that East Asians would allow emotions to dominate their lives this way. These are the same people whose oldest philosophical and religious traditions stress that people should detach themselves from their emotions and understand that emotions are most often the result of conditioning–not one’s identity.
Koreans have always been emotional and easily roused to the ’cause.’ Japan knows this as well or better than anyone. Ignoring it or being amazed by it is ridiculous. Another failing on the part of Koizumi.
Japan wants to be a leader not only in Asia, but in the world. They want a larger role at the UN. In order to be this country, they need to first show they understand those countries closest to them and know how to deal with them. All they are currently showing is ignorance to history and arrogance to those countries most important to them.
April 12th, 2005 at 12:46 amWhat exactly would you have the Japanese government do? Abolish freedom of speech or tell people what books to buy?
April 12th, 2005 at 6:39 amWhat exactly would you have the Japanese government do? Abolish freedom of speech or tell people what books to buy?
No, what I’m saying is that it shows a certain mindset where such books could become national bestsellers. Could you see a book honoring the Third Reich and playing down the atrocities committed by the Nazis being a bestseller in Germany?
People would be appalled if that were the case, rightly so.
April 12th, 2005 at 8:45 amI would also say that I would expect the government to firmly, loudly and unanimously condemn such books.
April 12th, 2005 at 8:47 amWhy should it be any government’s business to condemn or approve whatever its citizens might be reading?
Govenments exist to serve their citizens, not to act in loco parentis where their reading matter is concerned; free citizens consider it the height of impertinence for bureaucrats or politicians to lecture them on what books they choose to buy. I can see how such a mindset would be completely alien to subjects of a communist dictatorship, however …
April 12th, 2005 at 9:30 am“…history book became a public best seller with over 1,000,000 copies sold”
Why, that’s astonishing! A million copies sold for a textbook! A book I’ve never seen in a Japanese bookstore. That’s one for every 120 Japanese people on the planet!
Just last month I was talking to a man who recently retired from a publishing house. He was talking about how thrilled they were to sell 10,000 copies in their first run of a novel by a popular, award winning detective novelist. He was surprised at how well it did. Yet this textbook outsold it by 100 times! With no one ever mentioning these sales on the TV or radio, or in the newspapers, AT ALL. A true underground phenomenon!
Even more astonishing! The company with one of the biggest best-sellers in Japanese publishing history was so strapped for cash they had to ask Asahi Beer and Mitsubishi to bail them out!
Do you have a source for this amazing statistic–outside of China or South Korea?
April 12th, 2005 at 10:26 amMore on anti-Japan riots in China
More reaction and reports on the anti-Japan riots in China. In an effort to catch the populist wave, various Hong Kong groups are planning anti-Japan activites including a rally for this weekend. The issue is uniting the Democrats with the DAB, The Fro…
April 12th, 2005 at 11:42 amWhy should it be any government’s business to condemn or approve whatever its citizens might be reading?
The government should condemn the book itself. Governments do that type of thing all the time in all countries. Trying to pretend otherwise is ridculous.
April 12th, 2005 at 1:03 pmAmpontan: Excuse me, it was the revisionistic clap-trap manja bullshit that has sold over a million. The history book was just a best seller. You can find that information out as it is widely covered on the net.
Now, mind answering the rest of my comment?
April 12th, 2005 at 1:07 pmExcuse me, no I don’t know which “history book” sold a million, or one for every 120 people. Are we supposed to do your research for you and plug in “history book”, “million” and “Japan” into Google to find out?
The rest of your post didn’t have too much to talk about. Koreans are hysterical by nature, so the Japanese are supposed to act accordingly? Sorry, but when did the Korean Peninsula become the center of the universe? Good luck in the world, Corean people.
These demonstrations are all Koizumi’s fault for going to Yasukuni? Koizumi’s gone to Yasukuni for six straight years and we didn’t see these demonstrations the other five. The textbooks were revised in 2001 or so, we didn’t see these revisions then.
In another post, you thought it was natural for the Chinese authorities to stand around and do nothing while people’s lives and property are threatened. What am I supposed to discuss with someone who doesn’t believe in the rule of law?
April 12th, 2005 at 2:36 pmExcuse me, no I don’t know which “history book” sold a million, or one for every 120 people. Are we supposed to do your research for you and plug in “history book”, “million” and “Japan” into Google to find out?
Wow, I figured you could find the info for yourself. Guess not. Here we go.
From NY Times, March 2001.
Hironobu Kaneko, a 21-year-old college student, remembers the powerful emotions stirred in him three years ago when he read a best-selling book of cartoons that extolled, rather than denigrated, the history of Japan’s former Imperial Army.
The thick cartoon book, or manga, is called “On War” and celebrates the old army as a noble Asian liberation force rather than a brutal colonizer. It lauds Japan’s civilization as the oldest and most refined. And it dismisses as fictions well-documented atrocities, from the 1937 Nanjing massacre to the sexual enslavement of 200,000 so-called comfort women in World War II.
“This cartoon was saying exactly what we were all feeling back then,” said Mr. Kaneko, an eager and articulate student who is spending his winter break working as an intern in the Japanese Parliament. “The manga was addressing matters that many Japanese people have simply been avoiding, like we’ve been putting a lid over something smelly. I just felt it said things that needed to be said.”
Asked exactly what that message was, he said, “That we should not be so masochistic about our history.”
From futher on in the article.
.Mr. Kobayashi’s latest manga, “On Taiwan,” has sold more than 250,000 copies since it was published in November and has created sharp tensions with Japan’s neighbors for its depiction of the war. One frame, for example, says that Taiwanese women volunteered to become the sexual servants of Japanese soldiers and that the role even offered the women social advancement. The government has remained silent.
But wait, that’s only 250,000 and I did say a million didn’t I?
“We have become like a timid monkey that cannot even raise the possibility of war,” Mr. Kobayashi wrote in “On War,” which has sold nearly a million copies.
So, over a million sold between the two. Disgusting if I do say so.
How about another bestseller? The revisionist Not Taught in Textbooks (Kyōkasho ga oshienai rekishi) in 1997 was a bestseller. It was the inspiration for the above mentioned manja.
Now as far as the history book being a best seller…
Oh, and not a Korean source…
From: http://www.abc.net.au
To Japan now, where the country’s best selling book is not a novel or a romance, it’s a school history text. Not just any text book either, this one has infuriated many Asian countries by glossing over Japan’s war time atrocities.
From later in the transcript…
According to a survey by two of Japan’s biggest book stores, it’s become the nation’s number one best seller across all categories. People who have been campaigning against the book, such as Yayori Matsui [phonetic] are appalled.
But hey, I’m sure its only a few copies that were sold.
Now we’ll comment on the rest of your ‘answer’ if you can call it that.
The rest of your post didn’t have too much to talk about. Koreans are hysterical by nature, so the Japanese are supposed to act accordingly? Sorry, but when did the Korean Peninsula become the center of the universe? Good luck in the world, Corean people.
Wow, yes, let’s just ignore one of Japan’s largest trading partners, or even its largest if we throw China in the mix. But forget that, you completely misrepresented what I said. I was responding to your post on the emotionalism displayed by Japan’s neighbors. You would do well to re-read what I wrote.
Let’s look at your next paragrah.
These demonstrations are all Koizumi’s fault for going to Yasukuni? Koizumi’s gone to Yasukuni for six straight years and we didn’t see these demonstrations the other five. The textbooks were revised in 2001 or so, we didn’t see these revisions then.
Besides again misrepresenting what I wrote (this is becoming a trend), you are completely out in left field. There have been protests EVERYTIME he has visted the shrine as well as there were protests in 2001. It just happened that this year they threw Dokdo in as well.
Don’t you see a problem here at all? Japan wants to play with the big boys and be a major power. Yet it refuses to even learn how to deal with its closest trading partners. Don’t you think visiting a shrine that honors war criminals is the least bit wrong? Don’t you find any fault at all with revisionist textbooks that ignore horrific atrocities? Doesn’t it disgust you that such trash could become a best seller and manja like the ones mentioned above could sell over a million copies?
Finally, your last bit.
In another post, you thought it was natural for the Chinese authorities to stand around and do nothing while people’s lives and property are threatened. What am I supposed to discuss with someone who doesn’t believe in the rule of law?
I never said that. What I did say was it was ridiculous for Japan to expect an apology or compensation from China. I also said that maybe Japan should look internally for the reason this is happening. China never lets its population act like this, yet now it is and there has to be a reason.
As far as Korea goes, President Noh has been Japan’s best friend up until the lastest events. He always addressed his problems with Koizumi directly with the man and tried to solve problems quietly and diplomatically. Yet, just like with China, boundaries were finally crossed and the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back was placed.
Yet, all we get from Japan is how abused they are. I mean hell, how dare other Asian countries be upset with how we teach our children or who we show respect to or land we try and claim. We give out so much aid and money they should just ignore those slights.:roll:
I think China’s government and the actions it takes are abhorable. I don’t think much more of the Korean government as it is currently constituted. Japan should be much better than this. While I think much more of its government than I do of China’s and a bit more than I do of Korea’s, it is still a sad sad disappointment.
I’ll say it again, how can Japan expect to be a world player when it can’t even maintain decent diplomatic relations with its closest neighbors and trading partners?
April 12th, 2005 at 3:36 pmI found Ampontan’s comments on emotionalism in Chinese and S. Korean politics interesting as I have often thought Japanese political attitudes were often more driven by emotion than by rational analysis: militarism, WW II victimhood, agricultural chemicals, etc. I think most Americans like to think that their political views have a reasoned underpinning. Admittedly, this “reason” is often just an excuse for believing what we want to believe, but do Japanese or other East Asians not feel the desire to at least appear reasonable?
Tonight I am going home and read what my Chu-3 son’s text books say about WW II and Japanese colonialism.
April 12th, 2005 at 4:07 pmThanks for the link to the four-year-old TV program in Australia, Plunge.
By the way, you forgot to include one of the sentences in the transcript.
“At this book store in Tokyo sales are brisk, but not everyone who’s buying the book is a fan.”
Sleep easy, tonight, the Japanese amphibs won’t be landing in Busan anytime soon.
April 12th, 2005 at 8:07 pmThanks for the link to the four-year-old TV program in Australia, Plunge.
You’re welcome. You know, when you ask for proof that a 4 year old history book was a bestseller and I give it to you, you shouldn’t be pissy about it.
By the way, you forgot to include one of the sentences in the transcript.
“At this book store in Tokyo sales are brisk, but not everyone who’s buying the book is a fan.”
I never said it was and I was kind enough to provide the ONE news source that said this.
Sleep easy, tonight, the Japanese amphibs won’t be landing in Busan anytime soon.
Did I ever say it was? Or do you just enjoy giving assurances for things we all know won’t happen? I guess it does keep you from having to answer any real arguments or questions like those I brought up. Feel free to bow out now.
April 12th, 2005 at 10:21 pmI am disturbed by the number of websites where people really think that the Chinese and Koreans should just shut up and take it while Japan slowly rehabiliates their grotesque history. The Nanking Massacre happened. People were raped, then mutilated, then killed. Beheaded. Used for bayonet practice while still alive. Children were massacred. And it wasn’t just a crazed melee, it was a sustained killing spree that went on for weeks and weeks. People died harrowing, hideous deaths.
And it doesn’t disturb you at all that Japan now want to sweep this under the carpet? Oh, I’m sorry. They apologized already. Why won’t I be content? I’m such an emotional Chinese out to Japan-bash.
Read “The rape of Nanking” by Iris Chang. Or at least watch “Red Sorgum” by Zhang Yimou if your attention span is not up to a whole book. There are pictures. And eyewitness accounts by westerners (including a nazi who was horrified by the cruelty — ironic) so you know it’s not just chinese people making shit up.
Oh, and Japundit. Don’t you dare try and dismiss legitimate anger for ‘being emotional’. I agree that violent protests are wrong and counterproductive, but the feelings are real and stem from chinese death and suffering that’s being glossed over. What’s more irrational? Anger at the death of millions of your own countrymen or jeopardizing your country’s place in the world by denying the sins of the past?
April 13th, 2005 at 9:08 amOh, and Plunge. Thanks for your levelheaded commentary. Stole some of your ideas for my blogpost.
When we’re not inscrutible, we’re emotional.
April 13th, 2005 at 10:44 am“Feel free to bow out now.”
Let’s not get carried away with outselves, shall we? Yes, you were right, the textbook sold well. Which means? I bought a copy of Das Kapital in college and don’t take a bit of it seriously. Your own link showed that same phenomenon at work.
“I guess it does keep you from having to answer any real arguments or questions like those I brought up.”
I saw nothing that required me to spend much time on a response. The Chinese choose not to protect lives and property; indeed, evidence points to their collusion in the riots. The People’s Daily article showed how the government mouthpiece was all too anxious to use information that was likely untrue to agitate the readers. You seem to have no problem with any of this.
Everything I wrote in the original piece stands. They don’t like Japanese textbooks? Should we use Chinese textbooks as an example of coming to terms with national history instead? If they’re not worried about future Japanese actions, getting upset about the past is pointless. They weren’t alive when the events happened, so it’s just an excuse to indulge their emotions. (Thank you for helping prove my point, Battlepanda.) No one’s behavior in East Asia is so pristine that they have the right to go around lecturing people on theirs, particularly the Chinese. If anyone is worried about military problems in East Asia, Japan is the last place to look.
As for the Koreans, we’ve seen they don’t trouble themselves with facts before they hit the streets. Now they have the burden of Roh, who has shown his colors as a third-rate demagogue.
You suggested that Japan has a problem because it can’t get along with its neighbors. Compared to whom? China, South Korea, North Korea, and Russia? Japan’s conduct of foreign affairs is more benign than the four of those combined. (I might have exempted South Korea until recently.)
You’ll excuse me, but I have to get back to work.
April 13th, 2005 at 1:49 pmI posted this over at Marmot’’s site but in case this site draws a different audience.
For people that have studied Japan that post on this site, I’d appreciate an explanation of the black van phenomenon in Japan. From the perspective of this American who has not extensively studied Japan, I can only see the failure of the authorities to crack down on extortion and intimidation tactics practiced by Japanese right wings groups as a tacit approval of their viewpoints and methods. I find that disturbing. It also leads me to think that public apologies from Japanese leaders over Nanjing, comfort women, etc. reflect only “tatemae” and not “honne” and from an American perspective that makes the apologies rather hollow.
Anyway interesting reading about right-wing groups in Japan and their influence.
April 13th, 2005 at 5:32 pmhttp://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/discussionpapers/McNeill.html
You should read the whole thing. A side of Japan most gaijin never see or experience. A snippet:
My wife Keiko and I host a weekly talk show on local radio in Western Tokyo … just before Christmas 2000 we talked briefly about a trip we had made a year earlier to Nanjing[i] in China … walking through the museum in Nanjing that commemorates the incident, reading the testimony of hundreds of Chinese and non-Chinese survivors, looking at countless photographs of corpses and indeed their bones, some of which lie beneath the museum site, it’s impossible to deny what happened. And we said so, adding that those who do should pay a visit there themselves.
Thirty minutes after the show was broadcast, three members of a local “political group” arrived at the studio and asked to see the management. The station director, Sato-san, said he spoke for the station and, after exchanging name cards, everyone sat down.[ii] The only member of the group who spoke was the sempai (senior member) who softly and politely explained his displeasure. The Nanjing Massacre had not been “officially announced” (koshiki happyo) by the government, so we shouldn’t have mentioned it, he said … Why, he wanted to know, were we going on about China? Was our radio station communist? Sato-san carefully noted these points, including the last, on a writing pad before escorting the visitors to the elevator, bowing and thanking them for their visit.
Two days later the senior station manager called a meeting. He apologized for taking our time and explained that from now on he would be very grateful if we would not discuss political issues on the radio … He said we would need to apologize over the air for the Nanjing comment. If we didn’t, the men and their friends would drive their gaisensha, or black sound trucks, outside our sponsors (two ramen, or Chinese noodle, restaurants, a bar, and a couple of real estate agents) and harass them until they withdrew their support. Violence was unlikely, but he couldn’t rule it out. He apologized again for asking us to apologize. He handed us a sheet of paper the station had prepared for us to read on the next show. It said that we humbly apologized for the “inappropriate comments” (futekisetsu na hyogen ) we had made the previous week.
My wife and I were stunned. Far from being angry at a crude, thuggish attempt to shut down a public discussion, the station’s management had gone along with the rightist’s suggestions and upped the ante, out-censoring the censors by requesting an end to all political discussion.
Ariwrong: I wish I could help you more, but I can’t. I live in a town of 180,000 and seldom see any black vans. I see one drive by on the street maybe once every two or three years. In more than 20 years here, I can only remember one or two times where I’ve actually seen them parked on the street with a man giving a speech, and maybe four or five times when the van was in motion and blaring music or a speech from a loudspeaker. The noise can be annoying, but it is no worse than the same noise politicians of all parties make in rented trucks during election time.
In a previous post I mentioned a surprise look I got at a connection between the underworld and a former prime minister (and a reformer at that). I have read that the yakuza, who are ultra-nationalistic (rather than “right wing”, a meaningless phrase these days) contribute financially to the LDP. Politicians everywhere do favors for the people who give them money, and the yakuza probably contribute a lot.
To what extent the philosophies that the LDP and the yakuza intersect is not an easy question to answer. It may be that they just like the money. It may also be that they are afraid of taking the yakuza head on. (The mafia in the US tend to lay low with the general public, while the yakuza in Japan, at least the lower levels, have no problem in making their presence known and intimidating the public.)
I doubt there are very few, if any, prominent politicians who yearn for the days of the Japanese empire. At the very least, any who did would be realists (unlike the nationalists of the war years) and not really expect those days to return.
Every adult who reads newspapers and books in Japan is aware of the Nanking Massacre. I’ve bought magazines openly displayed in Japanese bookstores about it, and there is no shortage of books. They usually have a lot of photos, some gruesome. I have one with some Japanese soldiers walking by a beheaded corpse, with the head laying a few feet away.
I’d guess the soundtruck activity happens mostly in Tokyo or other big cities, where I never go, so I don’t know much about it. Sorry I can’t help more.
April 13th, 2005 at 8:02 pmAmpontan: You might start with actually answering the questions I posed and then maybe stop ignoring what I wrote.
First, the books. You ignore the popularity of more than just the one history book, the overwhelming popularity. This says something about society, more than just general curiosity. Yet, you refuse to answer the question posed about it.
Next, you continue to compare Japan to China. Again with the finger pointing. “If China doesn’t play nice why should we?” is the basic cry. So, I must assume that you’ve decided Japan should be no better than China, a despotic government. Boy, that says a lot for Japan! Also, and you know this, nobody is saying use China’s textbooks, they just want Japan to clean up their own.
As for the Koreans, we’ve seen they don’t trouble themselves with facts before they hit the streets. Now they have the burden of Roh, who has shown his colors as a third-rate demagogue.
Yeah, Noh is an ass and Koreans are emotional. But what facts are missing in these cases? Has Koizumi’s visits to the shrine not happened? Didn’t a prefecture in Japan claim Tokdo? Didn’t the ambassador to Korea basically say the prefecture did the right thing and that Tokdo is Japan’s land? Didn’t the Japanese government gloss over the problems in their history textbooks as it deals with their atrocities in Asia while forcing them to change things that dealt with the US? I guess this was all a part of their imagination, right? While their reaction was severe, it wasn’t like they weren’t provoked.
You suggested that Japan has a problem because it can’t get along with its neighbors. Compared to whom? China, South Korea, North Korea, and Russia? Japan’s conduct of foreign affairs is more benign than the four of those combined. (I might have exempted South Korea until recently.)
Oh please. Currently, Japan’s relations with China, South Korea, North Korea and most likely Russia as well are at a near all time low since the war. I would say their international relation abilities suck rocks. 3 of the most important countries to Japan and one big thorn and they can’t figure out a way to get along. Instead, Japan has a numnut for a PM who seems to delight in upsetting his neighbors. Knowing what has happened in the past over the textbooks, Dokdo and the like, he went ahead and let it all happen again. I can’t wait to see the response if he decides to insult them all by visiting Yasukuni this year.
Now, since I continue to answer, neigh destroy, every point you bring out, it would be nice if you would answer the few questions I posed earlier.
April 13th, 2005 at 10:13 pmDon’t you think visiting a shrine that honors war criminals is the least bit wrong? Don’t you find any fault at all with revisionist textbooks that ignore horrific atrocities? Doesn’t it disgust you that such trash could become a best seller and manja like the ones mentioned above could sell over a million copies?
Ampontan: You might start with actually answering the questions I posed and then maybe stop ignoring what I wrote.
First, the books. You ignore the popularity of more than just the one history book, the overwhelming popularity. This says something about society, more than just general curiosity. Yet, you refuse to answer the question posed about it.
Next, you continue to compare Japan to China. Again with the finger pointing. “If China doesn’t play nice why should we?” is the basic cry. So, I must assume that you’ve decided Japan should be no better than China, a despotic government. Boy, that says a lot for Japan! Also, and you know this, nobody is saying use China’s textbooks, they just want Japan to clean up their own.
As for the Koreans, we’ve seen they don’t trouble themselves with facts before they hit the streets. Now they have the burden of Roh, who has shown his colors as a third-rate demagogue.
Yeah, Noh is an ass and Koreans are emotional. But what facts are missing in these cases? Has Koizumi’s visits to the shrine not happened? Didn’t a prefecture in Japan claim Tokdo? Didn’t the ambassador to Korea basically say the prefecture did the right thing and that Tokdo is Japan’s land? Didn’t the Japanese government gloss over the problems in their history textbooks as it deals with their atrocities in Asia while forcing them to change things that dealt with the US? I guess this was all a part of their imagination, right? While their reaction was severe, it wasn’t like they weren’t provoked.
You suggested that Japan has a problem because it can’t get along with its neighbors. Compared to whom? China, South Korea, North Korea, and Russia? Japan’s conduct of foreign affairs is more benign than the four of those combined. (I might have exempted South Korea until recently.)
Oh please. Currently, Japan’s relations with China, South Korea, North Korea and most likely Russia as well are at a near all time low since the war. I would say their international relation abilities suck rocks. 3 of the most important countries to Japan and one big thorn and they can’t figure out a way to get along. Instead, Japan has a numnut for a PM who seems to delight in upsetting his neighbors. Knowing what has happened in the past over the textbooks, Dokdo and the like, he went ahead and let it all happen again. I can’t wait to see the response if he decides to insult them all by visiting Yasukuni this year.
Now, since I continue to answer, neigh destroy, every point you bring out, it would be nice if you would answer the few questions I posed earlier.
April 13th, 2005 at 10:14 pmDon’t you think visiting a shrine that honors war criminals is the least bit wrong? Don’t you find any fault at all with revisionist textbooks that ignore horrific atrocities? Doesn’t it disgust you that such trash could become a best seller and manja like the ones mentioned above could sell over a million copies?
Plunge,
The inability of Japan to have good relations with the present regime of North Korea is a bad thing? Good relations like South Korea has with North Korea. Relations which go well beyond the appeasement of Hitler, for this is not before North Korea has killed hundreds of thousands, starved millions for no other reason than to keep a tyrant in power, but is happening as it happens. South Korea, its current government and the one before, is not appeasing but aiding and abetting the equivalent of a holocaust. Bad relations with that South Korean government is a badge of honor. Not getting along with China? Good. You’d be surprised how many Chinese are happy about that. But then again you don’t really listen to the small voices in the gulag. Russia? You are worried about Japan? I share concerns too. But those concerns lead me to really worry about North Korea, China, and South Korea. Sad, you can’t see that your concern about what Japan might again become, is not consistent, in that you don’t seem to care a bit about regimes that have become, and are, the very evil you profess to be concerned. May I add in such a righteous manner, that Lenin’s “useful idiot” phrase seems most apt.
April 14th, 2005 at 3:45 am“concerned about”
April 14th, 2005 at 3:46 amBob: Everyone had their own ideas on how to solve the situation in North Korea. None of them have worked so far from agressiveness to passiveness.
China is Japan’s largest trading partner. It would behoove them to have good relations.
Russia: Yeah, having good relations with Russia is pretty important as well.
North Korea: Whatever, but in the current era of negotiation and nuclear weapons, it might not be bad to be talking.
You might want to take a new course of International Relations or some such, your knowledge seems to be sorely lacking.
April 14th, 2005 at 6:57 amPlunge,
That was rich Plunge. Especially the last part about the course in International relations. Your comment proves my point. The hundreds of thousands in concentration camps in North Korea are far from your mind. The millions who have died over the last decade not a concern. South Korea is guilty first of appeasement of tyranny and then aiding and abetting crimes against humanity, some “sunshine policy,” and they aren’t alone in this, but that Japan is not having “good” relations with the present regime in North Korea, and that some politicians here you no doubt hate, wish the regime to come to an end, is a sign that Japan cares about the very things you blame Japan for not facing up to. It “behooves” Japan to have “good relations” with China because of economic interests? Again, that’s rich, and once again shows there is no moral dimension to your view of the world, though you moralize ad nauseum, and at your own peril. Russia? On earlier post you said, if I recall, Japan’s relations with Russia seem to be at an all time low. Talk about having little grasp of history. “Your knowledge is sorely lacking” bit–pure useful idiot rubbish. Again, what you have convinced yourself Japan is, because of sales of Manga and rhetoric that is cherry-picked out of a free and democratic country operating under the rule of law, and the like, the dangers you see with your myopic view, in fact are happening, as we speak, in those places Japan should have a “good relationship” with, because it behooves it. Which is to say Japan should forget about the Chinese and North Koreans under the boot of tyranny and place themeselves under the same boot. I repeat, Japan as a thorn in tyrant Kim’s side, Japan as not buying into the mythical middle kingdom meme, is proof it has learned from history’s past, not the opposite.
April 14th, 2005 at 3:24 pmJust one more thing Plunge. What was that course in international relations you took again? Do you really want to talk academic credentials with me. Areas of expertise? If so lets do it right. Find a neutral third party to judge. Then put up a hundred thousand dollars. More if you have it. And then both of us can lay out our academic history. Whomever the judge picks as having a better record, including but not limited to more relevant coursework, takes the cash. Are you game Plunge? What was the name of that great University you are a graduate of? And in graduate school who was you Mentor? And what was the title of your dissertation? It is all very well, Plunge, to be out of ammunition and start ad hominem attacks, talk that talk, is all very well and good, but can you walk the walk? Put your money where your mouth is?
April 14th, 2005 at 3:44 pmBob, your own comments prove your own stupidity. Give it a rest. And when your money is in the bank, let me know.
April 14th, 2005 at 10:11 pmPlunge,
April 14th, 2005 at 10:50 pmThe “useful idiot” part, it turns out was giving you too much credit. I’ll be in Kyoto through June. In July I’ll be in Hong Kong. Then it is back to New York for the rest of the year. If you or one of your associates wants to meet up with me, then give me the word. We can arrange the time and place on the thread. My money is in the bank. You have been informed. Bring transcripts of your undergraduate and graduate work, lists of scholarships and awards, teaching duties…that kind of thing. I don’t think our little bet will go as far as your needing to provide published works, but if you have them bring them. “And when your money is in the bank, let me know.” Consider it done. The think about the internet, Plunge, is you never know who might be dropping in and having a little fun. A colleague of mine recommended this site, and I agree with him that it is a good way of getting your head out of the clouds, and Ampontan is light years ahead of most of the faculty I meet pontificating on East Asia, for which I congratulate him–he has the benefit of common sense and an attention to detail. Now Plunge you could be dealt with in a more academic fashion, with different rhetoric, but you need a jolt, not a lecture. But I see even giving you a jolt is not possible. To conclude, the money is in the bank, you know where I’ll be, so walk the walk and Plunge.
“think”–thing
April 14th, 2005 at 10:52 pmYou know, I’ve decided to answer some of your crap after all.
Especially the last part about the course in International relations. Your comment proves my point. The hundreds of thousands in concentration camps in North Korea are far from your mind. The millions who have died over the last decade not a concern. South Korea is guilty first of appeasement of tyranny and then aiding and abetting crimes against humanity, some “sunshine policy,” and they aren’t alone in this, but that Japan is not having “good” relations with the present regime in North Korea, and that some politicians here you no doubt hate, wish the regime to come to an end, is a sign that Japan cares about the very things you blame Japan for not facing up to.
That is pure crap Bob. What are you going to do to end the suffering in North Korea? Going to starve them out? A full blockade? Precipitate a war the could easily involve nuclear weapons? What’s your answer Bob? Until the sunshine policy, the attitude towards North Korea was one of aggressiveness. Did that shut down any of the camps or help any of those starving? Did it do anything to remove the regime controlling it? No Bob, it didn’t. Has the sunshine policy done any better? Nope. But what the hell, let’s destroy relations so we can’t even talk with them. Yeah, that’s a healthy attitude, right Bob? Because, as we all know, not talking solves everything. numnut.
It “behooves” Japan to have “good relations” with China because of economic interests? Again, that’s rich, and once again shows there is no moral dimension to your view of the world, though you moralize ad nauseum, and at your own peril.
Give me another break Bob and while your at it, you so enlightened view of how to handle China. BTW - ever even been there Bob? I’ll try to explain things to you so that you might even be able to understand. Having good relations with China as well as being a strong trading partner puts you in a position to help sway decisions and deter extremism on their part. Not talking with a giant like China and having no trade with them gives them a free hand to do things you would rather they didn’t do. Even a big guy like China understands they need trade to grow. Can you understand that Bob?
On earlier post you said, if I recall, Japan’s relations with Russia seem to be at an all time low. Talk about having little grasp of history.
We’re talking modern era Bob. Not back when they were shooting at each other. Keep up, okay?
Again, what you have convinced yourself Japan is, because of sales of Manga and rhetoric that is cherry-picked out of a free and democratic country operating under the rule of law, and the like, the dangers you see with your myopic view, in fact are happening, as we speak, in those places Japan should have a “good relationship” with, because it behooves it. Which is to say Japan should forget about the Chinese and North Koreans under the boot of tyranny and place themselves under the same boot. I repeat, Japan as a thorn in tyrant Kim’s side, Japan as not buying into the mythical middle kingdom meme, is proof it has learned from history’s past, not the opposite.
That’s rich Bob. So, your answer is for Japan to become isolationist from their closest neighbors and trading partners? Yeah, that’s the ticket.
As far as the other, Japanese nationalism is on the rise, and not in a good way. There’s a good editorial today talking about it. Next, there is no ‘cherry-picking’ going on. It isn’t ‘one or two’ people and a couple of instances. It is an ongoing, growing problem. If you can’t see that, you’ve got your head stuck in the sand.
Bob, all you do is insult. You don’t add anything to the discussion. Why don’t you use that excuse for a brain and try to add something here. My thought though, is that you can’t. You don’t even know enough about the situation to make a real comment. Get a life Bob, post something that shows you actually grasp the situation. It’s easy to insult and be rude like you Bob. There are thousands of them just like, the scourge of blog comments. Let’s see an intelligent post out of you. Okay?
April 14th, 2005 at 10:54 pmOh, and Bob, I’ll see you in Hong Kong if you like.
But before that, why don’t you post something intelligent for once. Just be like the little engine that could, “I think I can, I think I can…”
April 14th, 2005 at 11:04 pmPlunge,
April 14th, 2005 at 11:29 pmHong Kong. Where and when? You forget that the internet might not be the place where I choose to go around and around with the likes of a Plunge. This isn’t a hobby for me, it is business, my profession. Chinese was my second language. I lived in China for ten years. In Taiwan for five years after that. I’m as comfortable with Chinese as I am with Japanese, and it is English which gives me the most problems. My English is about as good as my Korean. Though I have published things in English, admittedly with a lot of help from editors. I will show this thread to my colleagues and my friends. I am sorry you have become the butt of our little joke. Again. Name the time and place, Hong Kong is fine with me, and don’t forget to bring the money.
Bob, why don’t you answer the questions, okay? Instead of making little threats and quips, say something intelligent.
April 14th, 2005 at 11:31 pmp.s. Nice site Japundit. When Plunge pays I promise you twenty percent. And on a serious note, I am sorry to have wasted Japundit’s space with all this. I’ll return to my ivory tower now. Your site seems like a lot of work, and I applaud you for the effort.
April 14th, 2005 at 11:33 pmOne more thing. You really are showing yourself to be nothing more than a pompous blowhard. You talk like you should actually know something, yet nothing intelligent ever comes out. So again, instead of being annoying, say something intelligent already.
Oh, I’ll at the Marriott Atrium mid-July if you wish to discuss all of this in person. Before that though, post something intelligent, something on subject and something worth discussing. Otherwise, don’t bother showing.
April 14th, 2005 at 11:37 pmPlunge,
April 14th, 2005 at 11:57 pmI get the feeling you don’t read very well. As well I haven’t threatened you. Unless by asking you to put your money where your mouth is is a threat. After all it was you, who responding to me, started the ad hominem by questioning my qualifications. Although you could argue the “useful idiot” phrase was a quip on my part. I agree. I take it back. I should have left that opinion unsaid. You greatly overestimate your importance to my self-opinion, and when you plead for me to say something “intelligent” all I can do is laugh. Let me ask you a question. Does all your intelligence make you money? Has it given you tenure? Now, Plunge, I appreciate your obvious intellect, and even your passion, and I admit I may have jumped into your turf unannounced, as it seems you make frequent comments here, but whether I have or have not said something intelligent above, I’ll leave for others, besides Plunge, to judge. As I and others have and will judge you. I appreciate your opinion, although it will have little import during the next peer review of an article. You were wise to drop the Hong Kong meeting. It would have been costly.
The meeting in Hong Kong wasn’t about a discussion. It was about a 100,000 dollar (American) bet. Again, you greatly overestimate the importance of yourself. Anyway, enjoy the battles in the internet world.
April 15th, 2005 at 12:00 amBob, if you aren’t intelligent enough to discuss these issues here, you certainly aren’t smart enough for me to waste my time on.
Have a good life troll, I mean Bob.
April 15th, 2005 at 12:04 amHarry?
April 15th, 2005 at 12:43 amBob, you really are an ass.
April 15th, 2005 at 9:57 pmBob may be an ass…but he’s an ass who happens to be right. And he can contribute ideas rather than just cheap name-calling. And I will be happy to hold the funds of both parties until the wager is settled. Japundit will vouch for me.
April 15th, 2005 at 10:36 pmNow that bob and Plunge have finished…
April 16th, 2005 at 9:27 pmit is ironic that Asahi (of the leftish Asahi group)was targeted by the Chinese. Serves them right.