In answer to the question of naming female Asian pop stars who have crossed over to become stars in the US. I’d throw out Puffy as a wild example of success that’s reached the mainstream.

Puffy is definitely starting to make some inroads, though they are still not covered with the same attention as, say, a Gwen Stefani.

But you and Duo speak to the point I was trying to make; there is a major part of the “Harajuku girl” phenom that the mainstream press isn’t getting. I don’t think we can just look at this trend and say, “Oh! Cultural appropriation. Bad bad bad. Terrible to see such submissive Asian women.”

I really think we might *might* be seeing a little bit of global pop culture — as in the wave of pop culture moving toward the US, and not just from the US to the rest of the world.

Time will tell.

1) I’d like the song a lot more if she could ACTUALLY PRONOUNCE THE WORD “HARAJUKU.”

2) I wonder if “kawai” in the last paragraph up there is a Freudian slip. ;D

The salon article was trying to adress Ms. Stefani’s use of these so called Harajuku Girls as China Dolls and accessories to her and her own inflated ego.

..Not unlike Britney and her airhead backups, it’s not at all uncommon. (Britney sucks.)

For another slightly unrelated symptom of what Marie’s talking about read this about manga sliding into major U.S. printed paper comic strips to attract a younger audience because, well, Calvin and Hobbes just aren’t cool anymore.

I really think we might *might* be seeing a little bit of global pop culture — as in the wave of pop culture moving toward the US, and not just from the US to the rest of the world.

Marie, I think you are right. And this was a great post. Keep em coming! I loved the story and think Gwen and the Harakuku Girls is cool stuff. It’s a new global positioning of culture. Forget the old stereotypes. Think new. Outside the box. We are living in an immaterial world now!

GPC = global positioning of culture

Nice

…Not unlike Britney and her airhead backups, it’s not at all uncommon. (Britney sucks.)

You can certainly make the same argument about Britney Spears, especially with her riding the hip Kabala wave thats spreading throughout Hollywood, but I think we should only focus on Ms. Stefani for the time being.

Although not Asian or Japanese myself (Lebanese to be exact), I think whenever some Western popstar decides to take something distinctively Asian or Far Eastern and watering it down for mass Western consumption, its really sucking the uniqueness and creativity out of said subculture.

Ms. Stefani’s use of these girls is really just a marketing ploy to: a) Capitalize on the West’s current obsession with everything Japanese, such as Anime, Manga, J-Pop, etc. and b) Attract more Asians to Ms. Stefani’s product.

Although I hardly think Ms. Stefani is guilty of any crime, I do think she’s being terribly smug, egocentric and pretentious, taking a whole group of people’s unique style of dress and attitude and wrapping it all in a sugary little, easy to swallow capsule, with the attempt of gaining some sort of sainthood, where “Harajaku” youths dance behind her and prostrate to her greatness at the opportune moment (Whilst chanting about things being “Bananas” no less)

Conclusion: Ms. Stefani (Whom I’ve never liked ever since her No Doubt days)has meddled in something she certainly shouldn’t have, much less in which she makes herself into some Harajuku Queen, with her faithful masses bowing in respect and throwing rose pedals on her feet.

“I don`t remember Ms. Cho in any martial arts movies.”
LOL. I really can’t stop laughing thinking about it.

Hey, Gwen was great in No Doubt. And what’s the fuss with harajuku girls? Of course they’re not rebels or something. They’re damn high schoolers, just bored and freaky.

TT — I never said in my post that the girls were “cultured” or “cultivated” or “rebelling” and I completely fail to see how you pulled that out of my post. I said that the girls have money, which is something that the critics here in the West don’t get. As for the Harajuku girls being akin to Valley Girls — I think that’s a great analogy. And don’t forget what a trend those Valley Girls started once upon a time. Fashion is fashion. It isn’t deep or philosophical. But it does influence people and it does sometimes tell us which way the wind is blowing.

I think Gwen is just doing a crappy job of presenting this image. The song sucks even in comparison to her other tracks on the album. Its sounds more like a commercial to me. When you say “hey I found this unique style” and try to make it sound exotic then you haven’t yet fully embraced it or understood it. First thing is first she might want to figure out what its called; EGL, AGA, etc.. Until she does that I think its lame for her to parade it around.

But I think the whole argument about whether or not she is entitled to embrace the culture is bs. I see nothing wrong with her embracing Elegant Gothic Lolita etc because the culture has just as much influence from the west as it does from Japan. People tend to have double standards about how they view American’s that embrass foreign culture. Where do people think the kids in Harajuku got the elements of their style from? Goth, Victorian dress etc did not originate in Japan. Next thing you know coppying a Jpop star that is trying to be just like Britney Spears is going to be considered raping Japanese culture.

Do they understand urban culture? Not really.

Huh? Define “urban culture”…

for japanese pop stars with cross over appeal in the US, how about Shonen Knife or Cibo Matto, I mean I am not the hippest of people, yet I’ve heard of both.

[...]

11/17/2005
Breakthrough Asian Actress Update

We offered up a modest opinion about the status of Asian actresses in Hollywood these days. We pointed out that so many ac [...]

You know, i doesn’t stop with gwen steffani. White people in general just try too hard to be like other races. In america, all you see if white boys chasing asian girls. It’s not because they see them for who they are, but chase them because of stereotypes placed on how exotic asian women are. I think this is just plain b.s. and we need to stick together as an asian community. Don’t be a sell out, we need to band together and put an end to the exploitation of the asian race! Respect is one thing, but to stereotype us for who we are is wrong. White people do it everywhere we go, they naturally assume asian people to be smart, they expect all asian women to be ’sluts’, i mean just look at how many white boys go run to buy honda’s and acura’s all of a sudden, why? - Because the envy us!

Well yeah, Sakai, you’re right. Not all asians are smart. (You’re living proof.)

I bet Ken Gushi secretly wants to be white since he drifts a Mustang. And all Japanese who like hip-hop probably wish they were black. Idiot.

Sakai has a point though. Japanese people are stereotyped but then so are any nationality you can imagine. Japanese use random English and some dress in stylized US or British trends and no one makes a deal about it.
It works both ways. I don’t care about anyone following Japanese fashion but Gwen has crossed the line and the size of her rack doesn’t negate that.

Actually, I am not so sure if she does have a nice rack. That was just an unresearched toungue-in-somewhere comment. In fact, now that I think of it, I was objectifying Ms. Stefani. How awful of me. But, then again, she’s not a designated “minority,” so maybe it’s OK.

Elec wrote:
I’ve even noticed myself getting frustrated at a Western band using a language none of them are fluent in incorrectly and getting all pissy; but we don’t when it’s a Japanese act, possibly out of fear for being perceived as intolerant/racist or somesuch. At least when they’re white we can whine about them.
Of course, this only goes for us cracker-folk. :-/

Dimestore Hod: HAIRYJUKU GURLZZZS !

Faith:
Just a guess, but I think it’s because they use English all over the place, and are forced to learn it in school. If someone like The Gwen uses Japanese, it’s because she’s actually went searching for it and set herself up as a sort of representative of it…a representative who doesn’t know what she’s talking about, can’t speak Japanese, is using a subculture for her own financial gains. Until she speaks Japanese and talks to those girls, and realizes she’s just accepted and allowed to do it because she’s foreign and famous…she’s disgusting.

PS: You know the lady who did the cover for Gwen’s CD? She’s a shojo fetish woman caught up in the adult gothic/dollmaker/weird artist culture. I met her. Aside from that cover, all of her artwork is girls of various points of nakedness bopping up and down the tv screen with smiley faces and ponies. I don’t know what the Hairyjuku Gurlz think of her, but I think she’s creepy and mentally unstable…

I was watching a Japanese news program, and the media likes Gwen’s take on things because it’s “kawaii.” I wonder what she’d do if she realized Harajuku is for 15-18 year olds, and that a percent of them act as escorts to old perverts so they can get the money to buy their Gaultier bags and Altier Boz dresses. They rest are just there for the $10 sale shirts or spoiled by parents who sometimes can’t afford the money, but can’t back down because of Japanese consumerism.

It’s like putting Viskei bands at anime cons; as long as they get the attention…but really, there are much better people out there to be bringing asians into the forefront. I mean, I’ve got my complaints with PuffAmi Yumi, like it’s the 2 asian stereotypes, but at least it has Japanese people…Shimotsuma Monogatari too, as far as media goes.

Thanks, anna, that was relevant. The argument represents the neurosis of the writer quite well, whoever it was. Interesting that the writer should be accusing the cover artist of being mentally unstable. Projection maybe?

Saying that an artist needs to learn the language of a culture before they can borrow from it is simply ridiculous on the face of it. Someone had better tell Peter Gabriel and Paul Simon that they are “disgusting” until they brush up on Swahili. Really, are these the reactions of a sane person? To call someone who borrows culture without the language disgusting??

So some girls in Harajuku prostitute themselves. So do some girls at Vassar. What’s the point?

The whole argument stinks of a mindset that says “I am better than Gwen Stefani because I speak Japanese, even if I do spend my days pretending to teach English to uninterested preschoolers.”

Gwen strikes me as someone who is having fun with the culture. Fun. Something her detractors seem to lack any sense of.

Faith and everyone else — Thanks for adding so much to this debate. There’s obviously even more to cover than the mainstream media has uncovered so far. Thanks to everyone for taking so much time to represent so many points of view.

Faith — you made me think about the way that the “punks” and “mods” of the UK had their rebellious act sort of taken over by fashionistas in the 70s. Interesting how these things seem to happen — only now it’s between Japan and the US.

I’d be curious — and probably others would be too — to learn more about your experiences regarding the whole Lolita/Goth scene. There’s nothing like hearing from someone who is actually part of a cultural movement. Perhaps you could write something up.

Thanks for the undeservedly nice reply, faith. That’s the thing about writing - the opinions just flow, and land naked and unadorned on a page for all to pick apart at leisure. I am often a complete ass when I write. But, with too much weighing of words I would never finish a paragraph.

You obviously know far more than I ever will about Harajuku and gothic lolita, or about Gwen Stefani for that matter. I still have the odd fringe group connections, but I am completely out of the loop of current trends - though my wife is still pretty well informed. I have a soft spot for weird kids, having been one myself, who make their own way.

So far as Gwen Stefani, she is a pop singer, and I like what I have seen and heard from her. I think it’s great that modern Japanese culture is being exported, even if it is a watered-down marketable version. I was introduced to wine by Boone’s Farm Apple Wine, though I eventually came to appreciate the real thing. This is what pop does, it brings in a lite version for mass consumption. People who want to know more will learn more. Gwen S has no social responsibility to present anything other than what interests her in the way it interests her. She’s an entertainer, not an anthropologist.

You seem to want to have the wider world understand your particular crowd, and that’s just the opposite of what you said your Harajuku friends are interested in. I think this is where you get frustrated. You are part of a subculture that is a bit off the mainstream, yet you want the mainstream to understand? By definition, they can’t, unless it is all diluted to appeal to mass tastes. This is one thing I like about the Japanese approach. They can maintain their boring “Clark Kent” persona for their daily life, and another very different persona for their other life, without feeling the need to somehow merge the two.

The day the guys in pick-up trucks stop asking you to lift your lolita skirts will be the day Harajuku culture dies. Just like punk. The scene will lose any intimacy it had. There may even be a day when a typical redneck is identified by the lolita dress he is wearing.

A bit along the lines of the illustrator you describe - I was under the impression that creepiness was a common element in this group. Adult fetishes and SM blending in with 12 year olds in cute dresses. It would not be unimaginable to see a 32 year old man and a 12 year old girl sporting the same knickers at the same place. On one, as I said, I like weirdos. On the other hand, I have a young daughter who will be walking into this sort of minefield in a few years. I don’t know what to think about, so I don’t very much right now.

If you really want to show Harajuku to the wider world, against my sage advice, why don’t you do it yourself? Light a candle rather than curse the darkness (or, in this case, the Gwenness). Maybe you should take up Marie’s offer?

You’re welcome to contact me and find out how little of use I really have to say if you want. Japundit has my permission to give my e-mail to anyone except stalkers, spammers and people who send mass e-mailings of every 1000-year old joke, picture, virus warning or chain letter they see on the Net.

Thanks, Ghoti! We do all do our best here. At this point, I feel like we’re extremely lucky to have such a diverse and smart crowd representing so many points of view — across the ocean.

Faith — I hope you’ll be willing to make a small dent in setting the record straight about Lolitas, etc. Like Ghoti, I was (and am?) a “wierd” kid and so very much sympathize with what that feels like.

Faith,

If you want to contact either ghoti or Marie, please send you e-mail address to contact@japundit.com.

We will pass it along.

Hmmmm,
It’s easy to insult detractors of Gwen because that would negate everything they say, valid or not. I have a great sense of fun. I think Gwen does to. I don’t think you need to speak Japanese to borrow from their culture. They borrow from ours. I think it’s good.
I just think that some of the clauses in their contract are wrong and the whole handmaiden act is off. They are fellow performers, fellow artists. Who else can you think of who treats their fellow artists as handmaidens? Would you support it if they did?

notice also that none of the girls gwen chose are particularly attractive — but more importantly, she selected four girls who more or less all LOOK THE SAME. (wow, way to reinforce the stereotype that all individuals of asian decent look the same.) They all have very non-descript features, they’re plain-looking, they’re chubby… and then there’s GWEN, in stark contrast, striking and conspicuous and very obviously in good shape.

how interesting. she hired acquired four very plain-looking “ethnic” pets to follow her around.
…and make her look better in comparison.

I thought that I was the only one to notice that Gwen uses the Harajuku girls to make herself look better in comparison. Taller, thinner, more stunning…but also pathetic. Bridezillas do the same thing with their bridesmaids on their wedding day, dress them all in the same awful outfits so the she will shine as the most beautiful one. Very L.A.M.E.

please my dear
I am looking for a girl to marri please if you are a girl please weriting me with email address
Thanks
kingsley

She did not name them L.A.M.B., because they’re her lambs. What a stupid idea! I’ve seen interviews with them and they say everyone is named after their personality and also lamb is their favorite animal, altough it hasn’t that much to do with the name. But anyways, I don’t think when she says Harajuku girls she means the population of Harajuku or Japan. She means HER Harajuku girls (the four she hangs out with). I mean the whole album is named after them, so she probably is talking about them in the songs. She says they’re very good friends of hers and they love eachother. They’re also VERY talanted at what they do. I would’ve hired them too if I was her. -_- So in all, I don’t think she’s trying to stereotype anyone. She’s just talking about the fact that she likes the city of Harajuku (btw HARAJUKU is not the whole ASIA or the whole JAPAN it’s just one city, so I don’t get why people say she’s making a stereotype for the whole of ASIA:roll:) and also about her four girlfriends.

P.S:Btw, someone said that they’d like the song if they can pronounce Harajuku? Wtf, are you retarded? You pronounce it the same way that you write it.O_o

Do you tell your girlfriend how to dress? What language to speak? Make them grovel at your feet? Name them? The fact that they are tallented performers in their own right only makes it worse. She went looking for them when she got into Harajuku, she didn’t know them before. It wasn’t like Gwen and her buddies decided to do this. She chased 2 of them down the street to recruit them. They may be her friends now but they had never met her before her Asian fetish started. She picked Asian dancers to go with the clothes.
Simple as that.

BTW Gwen can’t pronounce Harajuku so what does that make her?

My sister told me about Gwen’s new bag of treats last week. So far this has been the most informative article I have read. There seems to be no outlash, no rising up against this largely and widely across america. i am not japanese, i’m a german jew, but this is outrageous and should gwen stand in front of strong women of the world everywhere, not just goo-gooing teens already chewed up and spit back out by pop-culture, she wouldn’t last a second. her money is not buying these women a good place in the media. they are emotionless, emoticons. they don’t prescribe their own feelings, she does. think about junior high schools nationwide… are the pretty blonde bimbos going to start giving their lunch money to an asian girl to follow her around? i should think it will happen. sad sad sad. gwen stefani is no girl-power priestess. she’s a commodity and to downplay commodifying herself she has commodified four asian women. despicable.

It’s unfortunate that so many of you Harajuku fans believe what Gwen is doing is ‘wrong’. I personally believe her new obsession with Harajuku is out of flattery and honest admiration for our culture. You can’t exactly penalize her for it considering 95% of the people who posted here are not technically from Harajuku, Japan, or are even japanese to begin with. It would be like me telling the majority of you who love Harajuku style so much, to just quit bastardizing my country. I can easily say none of you do it ‘correctly’ either. But I don’t because no matter how horribly you dress based on Harajuku fashion, I know it is your own way of enjoying the culture. And yes, if Gwen Stefani asked me to follow her around and take pictures with her, I would. How horrible of me for wanting some publicity and fame.

PS:You can’t exactly say she pronounces ‘Harajuku’ wrong considering the majority of you fans don’t as well. Unless you are japanese, or have lived in japan, it is extremely difficult to all of a sudden pick up the accent. I know the majority of you jap fans believe you pronounce things better than everyone else, but you honestly don’t. And telling her to say it correctly would be similar to telling a japanese person to speak with an american accent. Not the easiest thing in the world, mind you. It took me a good fifteen years to learn how to speak without an accent or a lisp. Telling Gwen Stefani to learn japanese and the entire culture before she sings one measly song is completely ridiculous to even make an argument about it.
And I don’t understand why, but someone posted earlier on how white men think of asian girls as an accessory, stereotype, and slut. I hope that comment by Sakai was a joke. Because it was. I highly doubt my boyfriend went out with me for any of those reasons, granted, yes, he does believe me to be an attractive accessory, as I do him, but not in the same manner as she speaks of. Sakai also said that ‘white people in general just try too hard to be like other races’ This may be true, however that’s how the world revolves. Every person, place, and country needs inspiration from one another; otherwise we would never evolve or develop.

Wakako

Ok, seriously now. These 4 girls are payed, not forced. They enjoy the same freedoms as every other damned person in this country. They’re probably making more money than anyone who has posted here. They are not SELLING out any culture because the second that culture leaves an area it is something new, its not Harajuku Street culture anymore, its Gwen’s culture. It has happened since the beggining of time. Racism stems from people who lash out in anger, not the people who are having fun. I personally shake my head everytime i see them, but they have every right to do what they please. Everybody loves to take any chance they can to use an issue to further their own beliefs onto others; you people are exactly what you are accusing Stefani of.

Even if she completely bastardizes every culture in the world, people would just form new ones. Its not the end of the world. It’s not oppression.

Those pooooooor girls must cry the entire ride home in their brand new BMWs.

If you think you’re view is more important than anyone else’s, you’re simply never going to learn. Nobody’s opinion matters. Not mine. Not yours. Our opinions only apply to how we live our own lives.

I’m from slovenia i’m not speak english very good, but i just wanna say that gwen stefani is my favourite singer!!and this about harajuku girls.i don’t know why you don’t like them, because it’s really great idea!!Gwen Stefani and she’s harajuku girls are great, the best..for me!

Look, it’s show business.

And there’s no business like show business.

I don’t think there’s much else to say. Gwen Stefani has successfully marketed the image of Harajuku - good for her. The Harajuku girls have gained international fame - good for them. To me, it seems like a win-win deal. As for their impact on the Western view of Asians, I don’t think there’s much to be concerned about. When most people listen to Stefani, they listen for the sake of the music. The Harajuku girls rate only a mere notice and nothing more. They don’t seem to be having that huge of an influence on the American stereotype of Asia, from what I’ve seen around me.

Here be the thing:

Over the years, I have heard many erroneous things about Gwen Stefani, meant to tear her down. Few were based in fact. Like many people, I found her L.A.M.B. troupe to be in questionable taste. But a lot of the criticism levelled at her is just inaccurate in one way or another.

A big thing that bugs me is that everyone who is quick to condemn Gwen for “using” these girls (or to praise her for “naming the album after them”) is also doing something problematic. In the first case, WHO GIVES ANYONE ELSE THE RIGHT TO SPEAK FOR THE FOUR OF THEM? Maybe they feel oppressed… maybe they’re having fun. We don’t know. In the second case, L.A.M.B. is the name of the fashion brand that Gwen started way before she ever made/finished the album. I have a L.A.M.B./LeSportsac bag that predates the cd’s release by quite some time. The name L.A.M.B. was extended to the album (which honestly kind of pissed me off, because I now have an expensiveish bag that’s an advert for an album I don’t particularly like and that is now attached to all sorts of racial issues I normally stay out of). The girls were hired to play characters based on the “Love, Angel, Music, Baby” concept that is basically Gwen’s brand. The album was certainly not named after them.

I can’t think of a single back-up singer/dancer who is paid to have a unique personality, regardless of their ethnicity or the ethnicity of whoever the frontperson is. There are backup musicians who receive significant individual acknowledgment (Gail Ann Dorsey, who plays bass guitar for David Bowie, comes to mind), but not many. This situation is only loaded because the girls are noticeably of a different race than Gwen (meaning, if all her backup dancers were black, there wouldn’t be an outcry). The consternation is caused, I think, more because a point is made of their “Japaneseness” than because of the mere fact that they are of Asian descent.

More than one person has brought up, in the thread, that the Japanese are major cultural appropriators. Harajuku culture is simply not that unique or non-western. Even EGL and its offspring are based on European historical styles. Vivienne Westwood is hugely popular in Tokyo. It’s not the same kind of defensible position that people had when mehndi became popular in the US - or when Gwen Stefani popularized bindi.

So, I’ve been really uncomfortable with the implications of the whole “Gwen’s Japanese Dolls” controversy. It has turned me off of her work. But I also think the reaction has been overblown and ill-considered, illogical and based on false information, and on that idea that others have a right to speak for the girls, when in fact your own right is even less than that of Gwen (who is at least paying their salaries). There are better battles to fight and more serious instances of racism to consider. Other than that, what Ciel says: this is a blip that will not have much influence on American culture, any more than Madonna performing “Vogue” in 1780s attire at the MTV Music Awards caused an outcry because she trivialized either the suffering of the French masses prior to the Revolution or the massacre of the French aristocracy during the revolution. (It didn’t, and that’s my point. Too much power and intent and malice is ascribed to Gwen. At worst this is an ill-considered stumble, and it isn’t meant to hurt anyone.)

I don’t know whats so bad about Gwen Stefani’s fascination with Harajuku girls. I think its cute. No one ever talks about Japanese businessmen’s obsession with Blonde white women.Or the fact almost any anime cartoon you see has all white characters. By the same token, Anime and hello kitty and such have caught on over in the U.S. which i also think is very cute. The point is we borrow from each other all the time. I think it has less to do with race and everything to do with Globalization….and boredom.

[...] Longtime readers know that we’ve speculated on the spread of Japanese kawaii as a global sensibility. If you need a reminder, just take a look at the discussion that followed last year’s post on Gwen Stefani, who even attempted to use the word kawaii in her Harajuku song. [...]

gwen web, harajuku lovers has been updated, have you all noticed about it? it’s a nice web.

[...] course, if you are a regular reader of Japundit, then you know we’ve been harping on this “reverse import” business for a while. Then there’s this: “Our message [...]

[...] Japundit, we’ve observed for a while that popular culture isn’t necessarily flowing in the one, hegemonic direction that apologists always fear. But it does occur to me that part of [...]