I ran across a discussion over at Plunge Pontificates concerning the term Japanophile.
Plunge reports that he got into trouble using the term on a website where it was claimed Japanophile is a derogatory term. Plunge says:
I never started using it until those at Japundit were using it and never felt it to be derogatory.
According to Wikipedia (FWIW):
A Japanophile is any person with a strong interest in one or more aspects of Japan or Japanese culture, or a non-Japanese who loves Japan (as the etymology of the word suggests). The word is occasionally used in a derogatory manner to denote a person with a (perceived) obsessive interest with Japan.
Is Japanophile really a derogatory term or is it just perceived as such by people who dislike Japan much that they perceive interest in its culture as being inherently unhealthy?
My guess — and this is only a guess — is that some people would consider this an exoticizing and fetishizing term. For example, it isn’t really PC any more to use the term “Oriental” (as I leanred when I went to college). The correct term to use is “Asian.” I’m guessing that some people feel that the term Japanophile hints at a certain sort of fetishizing person. But that is just my guess.
Referring specifically to the use of the word “Asian”, it’s interesting, Marie, that the accepted US PC term is largely meaningless. At least to me, as it encompasses everyone from eastern Turkey to Japan.
FWIW, in Britain, when news reports “of Asian appearance”, it’s likely to be referring to someone of e.g. Indian or Pakistani descent. So maybe quite different from the north American definition.
And the Japanese themselves of course have their own definition of Asian - everyone in Asia apart from ‘us’!
As for the term ‘japanophile’, it seems it’s largely down to what people infer from the term, but as this will be different from person to person, it’s impossible to tell what connotations another person may have loaded into what is essentially a neutral term.
But of course in the age of PC it’s the speaker who has to adapt to the sensitive listener and modify his or her language rather than the other way round.
I agree with Marie. I think for some people the word suggests some kind of creepy fetishism of Japan, and more often than not, Japanese people. On a par with someone I once knew saying that he had “yellow fever” because he fetishized Asian women. I think those who have a healthier intrest in things Japanese get it and wouldn’t find it offensive
I am the blogger with whom Plunge “got in trouble” — or to clarify, I found his dismissal of non-Japanese citizens who do not criticize Mr. Koizumi’s Yasukuni visits as “Japanophiles” to be incorrect. (Additionally, when someone stoops to using insults in their arguments, it’s a flag that their premise is weak.) The term is offensive, or at least wrongly used, when applied to someone who genuinely understands Japan. A Japanophile is someone who fetishizes certain aspects of the culture from an outsider point of view.
Also, my criticisms of Plunge’s use of logic and the English language aren’t limited to this instance (see comments here and here).
Additional kudos to “Overoften” — when people talk to me about “Asians” in conversation, I tune them right out.
So the University of Chicago Oriental Institute is offensive now?? Uh-oh.. Whoever claimed Japanophile is somehow derogatory is stupid. Japophile would be, maybe, like from WWII, but not this, no way.
Hey btw, I’m glad you guys survived!!
Sounds close to pedophile to me… Anything with ~phile doesn’t sound good.
Audiophile?
Strictly speaking, a XXXXXfile is someone who genuinely likes a specific culture, country, religion or “ism”, while a XXXXphobe is someone who hates/loathes it.
So a JapanoPHILE is a good, positive term, always way and always will be. Period.
Someone who might be anti-Japanese would be a Japanophobe, i.e., he or she is PHOBIC about things/people Japanese.
Period.
A friend pointed out to me yesterday that many Thais have the word “porn” in their name, and it got me to wondering what the filters do to their emails. Talk about systematic discrimination….:grin:
Referring specifically to the use of the word “Asian”, it’s interesting, Marie, that the accepted US PC term is largely meaningless. At least to me, as it encompasses everyone from eastern Turkey to Japan.
FWIW, in Britain, when news reports “of Asian appearance”, it’s likely to be referring to someone of e.g. Indian or Pakistani descent. So maybe quite different from the north American definition.
And the Japanese themselves of course have their own definition of Asian - everyone in Asia apart from ‘us’!
Yes, you are right. I remember being amused when I lived in Paris and people referred to “L’Orient” which turned out to be a large stretch of land indeed. When I considered grad school, I Oxbridge had “Departments of African and Oriental Studies” which also struck me as a funny way to lump people together.
When I was an undergrad, the standard line was that “Oriental” was only to be used for objects (”Oriental rug,” etc.) and was therefore degrading when used to refer to people.
Go figure.
When I was an undergrad, the standard line was that “Oriental” was only to be used for objects (”Oriental rug,” etc.) and was therefore degrading when used to refer to people.
Yeah, that was the line I got. I think people stopped using “Oriental” so much after Said’s book was published. I imagine in another 30 years we will all be using yet another term.
I would say: drop all the words and just call everyone HUMANS…. fat chance!
Collegiate friends and I used “Nihonphile” to refer to Japan fetishists, those obsessed with all things Japanese, who seemed to believe that Japan and the Japanese could do no wrong, and that it was the closest thing to Heaven on Earth, or what I liked to think of as the “Lafcadio Hearn School.” So, yes, it can be derogatory.
Don’t get me wrong, though; I enjoyed my time living in Japan, enjoy my return visits, and would consider living there again if the right opportunity came along. But Japan is perfect just like the U.S. is perfect: not.
The reason it is negative is that it implies a mental condition such as a fetish or an obsession.
Usually when I hear it its dergatory. When I first heard the term it was like an American word with connotations similar to the word otaku except most people who have interests in Japan won’t run around screaming Japanophile pride.
Linguistically, the term itself is not negative, nor are any similar terms (e.g., Anglophile). But they seem to have come to refer to someone who has an unhealthy obsession with a certain culture.
Regardless of what the word may have originally meant, language does change over time. What counts is the current perception, and I can see how this term may be perceived as negative.
It’s a bit like “otaku” - insulting perhaps because of the connotations it has; no one wants to be portrayed as an introverted, obese twenty-something year old who still lives at home and gets off on female anime characters.
“Oriental” is definitely not advised these days. “Asian” is much more generally used. Of course, the best method would be to, like some have mentioned, be even more specific about who or what you’re talking about. “Laotians” “Taiwanese” “Fijian” “Phillipino,” etc.
Actually, the best method is to ignore the PC jackballs who have everyone’s sensibilities rubbed so raw they find offense with each passing breeze.
Are you going to tell the Japanese person they can no longer use the word 東洋人 as well?
“Oriental” is a perfectly acceptable term that is still in the dictionary. If you don’t like it, it is up to you to get over it.
yaddah, yaddah, yaddah
How about Nihongophile? (sounds better in English than Nihonphile.)
From reading this discussion I wonder if the negative connotations for Japanophile are derived, at least partially, from the pose of cynical irony among many, particularly the young, in the US.
Is there such a thing as a japologist?
would that be offensive?
Back in college, in my Aikido days, a couple of Japanese friends liked to call me a “Nippophile”. I could never decide what percentage of that was derogatory and what percentage was supposed to be endearing.
I think the “phile” suffix has a generally unpleasant connotation for some reason — it implies a dilettante rather than a serious scholar, as well as a person prone to affectations.
When I think of an “Anglophile,” for example, I think of an American person who will drink only Twinings tea, while scorning Lipton as “American trash, or who loudly proclaims that only BBC America has any program(me)ing worth watching. Such a person would also of course adore the Royal Family, and might not be above faking a British accent after having had a couple of pints.
This is not to say that those who have abiding interests in other cultures are unlikable — it is rather the self-hatred implicit in making invidious comparisons of one’s own culture to another, and in attempting to be something other than what one is (not to be confused with personal growth.)
So for Japanophiles, I think, I have an unpleasant image of someone who (in addition to perhaps having an Asian sexual fetish,) constantly touts the superiority of manga to other graphic novels, maybe peppers his or her speech with bits of Nihongo (even when no one else understands it,) and has room for little in life that does not pertain to Japan.
Just my take on it.
For myself, I will stop using the term and use more descriptive terms so that people understand just exactly which groups I’m talking about. Pro-Japanese or Right-Wing-Neo-Facist-Pro-Japanese, and the like depending on what is being discussed.
Right-Wing-Neo-Facist-Pro-Japanese, and the like
Well, that’s more like it.
At least you won’t be calling people Japanophiles!
What about: halophile, discophile, xenophile, Francophile, audiophile, technophile, oenophile, ailurophile, turophile, bibliophile
Uh, isn’t it obvious that “Japanophile” is a label which plays on the connotations surrounding “pedophile”? Both end in “phile”, both are associated with fixed, particular sexual attractions, and the idea is that both are therefore (supposedly) similarly perverse.
Well great, you guys just threw out a description of what I thought I was, now I’m gonna have an identity crisis… I don’t know my stuff well enough yet to be a Japundit like JP or Marie or David. Haa, um, frig.
You know..it’s really funny. The thing about the Japan-haters is that it is not enough that they hate everything or are jealous of Japan. They go one step further and get fuming angry when other people who are entirely entitled to their own opinion express admiration or positive feelings about any aspect of Japan.
I have also noticed that many of these people who are “Japanophile-haters” are themselves “Chinaphiles” or “Koreaphiles”. They can’t just leave it at criticizing Japan…they have to go one step further and express hatred and disdain at any foreigner who praises Japan.
Case and point, usually the Japan-haters are actually just a few in number but use multiple identies on various boards and forums on the internet to give the false appearance of increased numbers. Usually, they will go into their usual tirade of about how Japan needs to compensate the rest of Asia because someone’s great great grandfather was killed in WWII, etc. Then, another poster will come in and write about some excellent sushi that they ate or will say how beautiful the sakura blossoms in Kyoto are. This will make the Japan-hater FUMING angry since to them, it is unthinkable that any positive comments about Japan will be allowed. This will then spark a tirade of how sakura blossoms in their favorite nations (usually, N.Korea or China) are much more beautiful or about how Kyoto is a terrible city…or that sushi is really a Korean or Chinese invention but that only the sushi in Japan is bad, etc.
Very quite humorous to watch from a third person perspective. In fact, observing the actions of these “Korea/China-phile” Japan-haters is quite like Jane Goodall observing the behavior of chimpanzees in the wild.
Uh, isn’t it obvious that “Japanophile” is a label which plays on the connotations surrounding “pedophile”?
Uh, no.
Funny, I think you can say the same thing about Korea-haters and China-haters as well.
Note #31:
I think you are absolutely correct.
I am a Japanophile and proud of it. In fact, I like Orientals in general!
[…] ertaining discussion of the term “Japanophile” over at Plunge Pontificates and Japundit. On a related-but-not-entirely note, Zack the shakuhachi player (in this c […]
To 31. It’s better than Japanophiles posting under different aliases, pretening to be crazy Korean making irrational anti-Japan statements, just so they can reply under a different alias and make the fake Korean look dumb. Anything goes on the internet.
Zzzzzz…
“Right-Wing-Neo-Facist-Pro-Japanese”
Keep trying and you’ll eventually hit on an expression that actually means something.
In another note, the discussion about Anglophile sent me to the dictionary, at last. I should have gone there first.
Webster’s says: “a person who strongly admires or is devoted to England, its people, customs, influence, etc.”
I admit this makes me back off a bit from my perceptions of Japanophile or Anglophile as neutral expressions.
I have a strong preference for Japan, many of its customs, and a lot of its people. I’d much rather live here than in the US, my native country.
However, I’m not so sure I would I say that I “strongly admire and am devoted to Japan” in its entirety, without reservations, as this definition seems to suggest.
I’m going to have to think about this some more.
I think the problem with terms like “Japanophile” is that such labels invariably oversimplify. You call someone a “Japanophile” and in your own mind you believe you have understood that person, his or her attitude, etc.
The problem, as we have seen in the posts here, is that such terms mean different things to different people.
Ampotan states above that he has a “strong preference for Japan, many of its customs, and a lot of its people. I’d rather live here than in the US….” In what I imagine is still a simplified version of his feelings, he has already managed to express far more depth than could ever be expressed by the single word “Japanophile.”
And just to put a personal spin on it, I find that Japanese people tend to express emotions in this kind of labelling, over-simplified way. At least in public.
The word “hazukashii,” for example, is vastly overused in Japan. Any time anyone ever feels even vaguely uncomfortable, it becomes “hazukashii.” So, in effect, “hazukashii” means something like “almost any feeling that is not good, especially if felt in the presence of others.” I know I’m overgeneralizing a bit, but I think students and speakers of Japanese (even Japanese speakers of Japanese) will see what I mean. I hope so, anyway.
This sort of thing happens in English, I’m sure (can’t think of an example at the moment…), and other languages, but it happens a lot in Japanese. And it presents the same problems as labels such as “Japanophile”: it really isn’t what I’m feeling, but saying it seems to satisfy people’s expectations.
So, calling someone a “Japanophile” is really just making yourself feel as though your expectations have been satisfied: “Ah, so-and-so is a Japanophile; I got HIS number!”
Am I way off-base here? What does everyone think?
re: 38’s question “I wonder if the Japanese have heard this term in their own Japanese language newspapers, as news reports or columns by language professors?”
In Japanese there is the term “nihon-biiki” (日本贔屓：beware the unusual kanji; it’s usually written in hiragana). The “biiki” part of that is the word “hiiki,” which means “favoritism” or “patronage.”
“Nihon-biiki” is what “Japanophiles” get called in Japanese. As far as I can tell, it has the same problems as the English term, being a positive term to one person, and a negative term to another.
“America-phile” becomes “Amerika-biiki,” “Anglo-phile” becomes “Igirisu-biiki,” and so on.
Here’s the Japanese definition:
(1)気に入った人に特に目をかけ世話をすること。気に入ったものを特にかわいがること。
(2)目をかけて世話してくれる人。パトロン。後援者。
There’s an interesting idiom in Japanese: “Hiiki no hikitaoshi.” This means something like “being so overly-favorable toward someone that you cause the person more harm than good.” No good deed goes unpunished, eh?
In Japanese: 「贔屓の引き倒し」
ひいきし過ぎて、かえってその人の迷惑になること。
To 36. No it is not. However, Japanophiles are better than Koreaphiles posting under different aliases, pretending to be non-Koreans making irrational anti-Japan statements, just so they can reply under a different alias to make it look as though the number of Japan-haters is greater than that it actually is. As you say, anything goes on the internet.
In short, the definition of Japanophile on most internet boards is the following:
“Someone who does not bear a chip on his/her own shoulder and opts to look at the positive experiences/aspects about Japan rather than obsessing about the negatives. This really irks and riles up the Japan haters who hate to see a person enjoying or saying anything positive about Japan.”
couldn’t we just say someone is a henna gaijin and leave it at that?:smile:
and there’s nothing wrong with being a henna gaijin, either….
[…] rove their lot in life. This article and the discussion on “Japanophiles” at several blogs got me thinking – what is it that keeps me interested in Japan after n […]
Yeah the part that could make the connotation a negative one, is the -phile part. We all know that -phile doesn’t have a good connotation when referring to other types.
-phile = “lover of”
pedophile = “lover of children” (sexual, and this is an oldschool euphemism when the intended meaning is “child molestor” or “potential child molestor”)
ailurophile = “lover of cats” (NOT a euphemism for bestiality)
anglophile = defined above, lover of England and English Stuff, but please notice we do not say “Englandophile” (which is why I think “Japanophile” is an awkward term.) Also notice that this does not mean “one who vastly prefers to have sex with Londoners.” In general, regardless of the Webster’s definition, most people’s understanding of (nation)-phile is simply “one who has a positive interest in (nation).” The opposite is -phobe, and need not necessarily mean that the thing is truly feared, so much as disliked. We do not say “anglophile” scientifically, in the same way that we would say “necrophile” to describe a certain pathological issue.
In other words, I think anyone keeping their distance from words than end in -phile simply because a few unsavory euphemisms also end in that suffix is limiting their own use of the English language. Most uses of the suffix are completely unrelated to criminal sexual proclivities or unsavory business.
Yamatophile?
PS - I suggested “Nihongophile” earlier, because it seems like the other famous -philes, anglo- and franco-, are related to the terms for the languages associated w/ those cultures, and those who speak them: anglophone, francophone. So it would follow that a Japanese speaker could be a Nihongophone (there isn’t any Latinized equivalent of “Japan,” for obvious historical reasons, and that’s the problem with this whole construction). If you’re making a backwards construction, surely this is less awkward - but also less obvious to those with only passing knowledge of any form of Japanese culture.