Why do Foreign Men like Japan?
According to Boye Lafayette De Mente (I think thats a french name) from the Japan Perspectives website, the answer to why exactly foreign men like Japan are the girls…
In an interesting if not absurd op/ed piece, Boye tells here of the “..Untold story of Japan’s Rise to economic prominence is the contributions seductive Japanese girls made to the scene”.
What I do find interesting about this article is that its wrong, but its just told from one opinion that is written as if its a global fact. Having said that, I think there is value in the opinion presented because there’s something to debate in this that all Japundit readers can take away from.
Here is a tidbit:
Historically, the air of utter innocence and vulnerability that Japanese girls were conditioned to exhibit was one of their most powerful assets in attracting men. Even women who had worked for years as geisha or prostitutes continued to play the role of innocents who were paragons of virtue. Still today most Japanese girls have absorbed enough of the traditional culture that they are able to project this virgin- like image at will.
Click HERE for the full article.
You don’t know why? Really? ^_^
By the way, that Boye Lafayette De Mente guy is one sharp tack. His book “The Japanese Have a Word For It” is top notch, and he’s been here since frigging 1947 yet isn’t a weenie like most of those old timers.
January 2nd, 2007 at 12:30 pmblame it on that damned cad Pinkerton and that little floozy Cho-Cho-San..(or conversely Yoko and her handbag - the Walrus).
Take your’e pick.:neutral:
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:10 pmGreat, more generalizations, stereotypes and subtle racism.
“A significant percentage of them continue to have a special interest in foreign men because there is nothing special about the appearance of Japanese men — they all look very much alike — most have not yet given up all of the old chauvinistic ways, and the girls simply want to have both a social and sexual experience with a foreign man.”
Yeah, they all look very much alike, don’t they?
As an Asian woman, I’m insulted by the article, whether it is meant to be taken seriously or not. This kind of stuff is what is creating all the exotic myths surrounding Asian women, who are treated not as individuals but as a series of absurd stereotypes.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:58 pmOne thing that caught my eye in this guy’s bio is that he: “holds a degree in economics and Japanese from Tokyo’s Sophia University.”
Though my recollection may be wrong (I am a graduate of Sophia), I don’t think Sophia University offers a degree in Japanese, does it?
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:16 pm‘In this book I listed and discussed the primary physical and intangible attractions of Asian women…’
I love how he goes on to describe Japanese women as a farmer would inspect cattle, checking out the teeth, lifting up the hooves and checking under the tail to report on it’s health and overall value.
He is exhibiting a typical fetish mentality where one exoticizes and objectifies a foreign woman. She’s non-human at this point.
‘A significant percentage of them continue to have a special interest in foreign men because there is nothing special about the appearance of Japanese men — they all look very much alike’
Behind statements like this hides a pathetic White guy with a case of Marco Polo Syndrome.
What’s interesting to me are the women who really think guys like this actually love them. Or do they not really care? In my mind, a woman would have to be either stupid, or desperate to fall for a guy who’s clearly objectifying them.
I remember a female friend from Taiwan explaining to me how her unattractive friends jokingly referred to themselves as “exports” because no Taiwanese man wanted them but they could find a White guy who would marry them. Thus the name “export”.
I’m not picking on any mixed couples because people find love all over the place. I’m only perplexed by this fetishization issue.
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:59 pmMarco Polo ? Italian?..(don’t tell me he’s a Juventus supporter).
Well that says it all.:roll:
My missus of 15yrs. doesn’t fit any of these deeply average stereotypes.
I think that words like exotic,oriental,mysterious,
inscrutable,submissive..etc,etc are just a lot of manufactured pap.
Chiaki Mukai is from my wife’s hometown.
http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/PS/mukai.html
and a bit of a personal hero/heroine? to her.
so my wife is into motocross/kendo/punk..and all those typical feminine japanese pastimes…
January 2nd, 2007 at 5:17 pmWho is this guy? Will someone pay me to write about why I think hot girls are hot?
January 2nd, 2007 at 5:52 pm[...] – more – [...]
January 2nd, 2007 at 6:27 pmJapan is very feminine by nature, with strong appreciation for culture, fashion and arts. Even the men here are often very well dressed and softly spoken. Back home (North QLD), it’s the extreme opposite.
January 2nd, 2007 at 7:09 pmWhy do people still write this trash? I mean really, it’s just so cheap.
Second question - why do JP contributors post it and give it any credance?
January 2nd, 2007 at 8:33 pmDo I sense a bit of outraged Gaijin syndrome at work here?
There was a similar article that JP posted earlier that got every one worked up and to tell the truth, I am not sure why. There are a lot of guys here for whom the women are the nymber 1 attraction. I’m one. I love Japanese women! If I wanted to put up with American attitudes and all the other baggage, I would have stayed in America.
You have to remember that these guys are writing for a certain audience. Its guys who want to come here and meet Ms Right for tonight-NOT Miss Right for the rest of their life.
Sure a lot of it is crap, but there is enough truth that it adds to the mystery and the adventure. When that goes away and Japanese women start behaving like their American sisters-well hang it up, its time to consider the priesthood.
This is not something to be upset about.
January 2nd, 2007 at 9:34 pmRaj, I think its important to post because people can speak out against it and the ridiculous things that are written there.
I don’t believe its ok for people to just ignore something they see. Its important that people know that all people don’t agree with it. Thats why its important to speak out against it.
January 2nd, 2007 at 11:15 pm“I love Japanese women! If I wanted to put up with American attitudes and all the other baggage, I would have stayed in America.”
Instead you went to Japan so you could meet “Ms Right for tonight-NOT Miss Right for the rest of their life”? Yes, I too wonder why would any women put up with this kind of crap. I, for one, do not want to be anyone’s ‘adventure’, thank you very much.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:37 amRaj,
Writing about something does not give it credence, it gives it publicity. In fact Alex states quite clearly that he disagrees with this guy’s opinion.
Whether people accept it as truth is up to them.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:24 amDe Mente’s books are just as bad, filled with sweeping generalizations about How Every Japanese Thinks And Behaves. After trying to read three of his books, I came away convinced that the Japan in his head is nothing like the one in our world.
-j
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:36 amAll of this kind of reminds me of the explosive Little Brown Wren piece that appeared in the Tokyo Weekender in 1976.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:46 amNice reference JP!
January 3rd, 2007 at 3:03 amI’m with you hibiscus. This stuff is tedious and not even very interesting after a while, or at least not that interesting to me. It seems to fascinate a certain segment of the population for some reason though.
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:16 amSo I read the article more carefully.
It sounds to me like this guy knows a lot about the mizu shobai world, which is of course *a* world in Japan and not *the* world. And perhaps he’s an expert in evaluating the women who participate in it. But then his article should’ve been titled: “Why Foreign Men are Suckered into Thinking They Know Japan.”
There’s a great chapter in the John Dower book on post war Japan, for example, which discusses how the government specifically recruited young women to “service” the libido crazy westerners whom they knew couldn’t help but objectify their women. The fate of these women–the statistics of their fate–speak to something other than the women loving their job.
But if all you do is go to the mizu shobai world, then . . . that’s all you know.
I think it’s a fool who extrapolates out from that kind of experience and thinks he knows the *truth* of all people. I mean, what he knows is the mizu shobai world. That’s not the same thing as knowing “Japanese women” as though they were some sort of limited and knowable category.
I have to say, this continued emphasis on sexual content gets me down after a while. It’s sort of like talking to Europeans about America and hearing them tell me over and over again what a violent society this is. Every culture is more than its stereotypes, and Japan is more than its maids, and sex robots and panty clad women.
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:26 amWhat?? Marie, are you saying that the mizushobai world is unrepresentative of the truth?!
I just found the article a bit sad. Here’s a 70 or 80 year old man writing about playtime in his salad days as though they were pertinent to anything. On the other hand, I admire anyone who can crank out a lifetime of books with this sort of mediocre writing, and seemingly make a living at it. It’s inspiring.
Yes, mizushobai, where the girls have 2 names, 3 cell phones, and a whole stable of “boyfriends” is not the easiest environment to dig out the truth, particullarly for the uninitiated.
And that’s what’s odd about the author. For an “expert” on Japan, he seems to be repeating a lot of cliches that we hear from those who have never set foot here. Maybe it’s just that he’s way out of touch, or maybe his resume is a bit padded.
One of the funniest pick-up attempts I’ve ever heard was a guy whose first words to a friend were a completely ingenuous “You’re Japanese? I love Japanese girls!”
That’s how to make a girl feel special.
On the other hand, it’s all a bit silly for anyone to get tied in knots over. I would like to know how these attitudes are anything more than an annoyance. Really.
January 3rd, 2007 at 10:18 amMarie & Hibiscus:
January 3rd, 2007 at 10:57 amPlease reserve at least a little of your outrage for Japanese society, which goes out of its way to play to such stereotypes. After all, the single most common question asked of all western men in Japan, by both men and women, is “What do you think of Japanese women?” (And I certainly will not comment on the curious juxtaposition that invariably has that asked just before or after the query “Do you like sushi?”)
I have to say, this continued emphasis on sexual content gets me down after a while.
A man has to have a hobby, you know.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:10 pmIt’s very easy to take potshots at japanese men/social structures & constructs from a distance Ladies.
F.I.F.O - (fly-in-fly-out).
and then say - “those beastly,odious,abominable whatever’s”.
“but look at this beautiful cashmere/silk blend headband I picked up for less than wholesale”.
(dwell on this).
If this seems a wee peevish - well yes it is.
January 3rd, 2007 at 1:28 pmRattler:
No one is ‘outraged’ here, just tired of the same old clichés and stereotypes about Japanese women, and Asian women in general.
It is another cliché to, having felt like you’re attacked by someone else for your own prejudice and ignorance, turn around and say, ‘well, look at the other side! They do the same thing too!’ as if that justifies anything. It is true stereotypes are everywhere, and even in his own article, De Monte generalizes western men when he talks as if ALL of them like Japanese women for the reasons he writes.
If De Monte and can make a living writing crap, there must be people who are buying it.
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:26 pmHibiscus,
“Yes, I too wonder why would any women put up with this kind of crap. I, for one, do not want to be anyone’s ‘adventure’, thank you very much. “
Unlucky for you, but to each his or her own. While you may disapprove, during my first few years here, I found no shortage of volunteers who were quite willing to be my ‘adventure’.
And that’s a good thing.
I think all of this feigned outrage is just rot. It does Japanse girls a huge disservice if you ask me. They are not stupid, in my experience, and they know how the game works. The beauty of it though, is that at least in my experience, they do not have the hangups about sex and relationships that some western women seem to have.
Which is also a good thing.
There are Japanese women who play and those who don’t. There are also those who play for a while then out grow it. :cry:. However in my experience, if a girl sticks around for a while, she knows what she wants. And usually they get it.:twisted:
Is this a great country or what?
“Wars and lechery. Still wars and lechery,” rails the frail Thursytes. “Nothing else holds the fashion…..”
January 3rd, 2007 at 8:44 pm“those beastly,odious,abominable whatever’s”.
“but look at this beautiful cashmere/silk blend headband I picked up for less than wholesale”.
Hunh? Logical connection please? I didn’t take any potshots. Just said I get tired of logging in day after day and seeing yet another one of these posts saying essentially the same thing about and women and sex and westerners in Japan. It’s repetitive. On the other hand, it seems to entertain a certain segment of the audience, which I guess is fine.
I’ve spent enough time in Japan and spoken to enough people to know that all these dymanics are very real–as is the white girl admiration of Japanese men (especially if you have blond hair). But I get tired of it, and I’m as entitled to my opinion as anyone else.
“A man has to have a hobby, you know.”
Very true. Hobbies differ by men. Seeking out yet another interesting sexual aspect of Japan isn’t my hobby and I get bored after a while of seeing so many posts on the subject.
“Marie, are you saying that the mizushobai world is unrepresentative of the truth?!”
Yes, it is unrepresentative of the THE colossal, massive, one great truth of Japan. It’s one aspect of Japan and pretty significant, I agree. And yes, I remember all the nudity in Japan when I was a kid–the TV shows, the posters on the streets, etc.
I actually find that a lot less fascinating than some of you do, probably because I’m sort of used to seeing it and I’m not a horny man thrilled to be in an “exotic” country. But then that’s me.
“Unlucky for you, but to each his or her own. While you may disapprove, during my first few years here, I found no shortage of volunteers who were quite willing to be my ‘adventure’.
And that’s a good thing.
But read what I wrote. I said that this “gets me down” after a while. I didn’t say, “I disapprove.”
You guys are so very quick to assume that when a girl says, “this gets me down after a while,” she must be prudishly objecting.
I very clearly said that the repeated emphasis on sexual content depresses me after a while. That’s it.
“I think all of this feigned outrage is just rot. It does Japanse girls a huge disservice if you ask me. They are not stupid, in my experience, and they know how the game works. The beauty of it though, is that at least in my experience, they do not have the hangups about sex and relationships that some western women seem to have.”
See above comment.
To repeat myself, my point was simply that I get tired of logging on every morning and seeing and reading yet another post on attitudes toward sex and women in Japan.
“Marie & Hibiscus:
Please reserve at least a little of your outrage for Japanese society, which goes out of its way to play to such stereotypes. After all, the single most common question asked of all western men in Japan, by both men and women, is “What do you think of Japanese women?’’ (And I certainly will not comment on the curious juxtaposition that invariably has that asked just before or after the query “Do you like sushi?’’)”
If you read my post above, I made the point that the Japanese government very carefully set up the mizu shobai world after the war and that I’m very aware that it was consciously engineered to play to the western man’s fantasy (Dower even includes the itneresting detail that Japanese women were surprised how, on the whole, their black clients were kinder and gentler than the white ones).
To repeat, I find this tedious and uninteresting after a while and also limited.
January 4th, 2007 at 12:41 amI see Maries point.
Yes, it is unrepresentative of the THE colossal, massive, one great truth of Japan.
I think its quite possible that we have focused too much on this issue and I take her point.
January 4th, 2007 at 12:56 amHey, Alex, kudos to you for starting a post that got us all talking! I actually hope that more of these posters will comment more often (myself included). That’s good.
And I should apologize to you — one Japundit poster to another — for jumping in here and getting critical of you, which we try not to do (Japanese style). But thank you for listening to my point of view and considering it. Believe it or not, that was all I really wanted for someone to do.
Long may Japundit provoke heated and interesting discussions.
January 4th, 2007 at 1:10 amEr, actually, Marie, my comment about mizushoubai was feigned shock, sarcasm. Please don’t make me resort to emoticons. My point was that it was rather funny that anyone was trying to find the truth of a country in the part of it that is most noted for deceit.
So far as THE one great truth of Japan, I won’t even attempt it.
men are simple, visual, sexual beings who will do most anything to make you happy when you make them sexually happy, says Kim Conant, whose similar story in Japundit caused barely a ripple of dissent. For all the attention sex gets, it rarely has inspired great writing, but often has spoiled it.
January 4th, 2007 at 1:49 amMarie, no need at all for a sorry. Its great we’re all finally debating issues and talking! Lets hope we have more of that.
Ok, now I HAVE to point this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN87XvLD-NY
The above link is for a commercial for a Sony Playstation 3 game called All Star Janken.
I think many elements of what we’re talking about is very demonstraightable right there in that ad.
January 4th, 2007 at 1:50 amAre they selling a game or something else?
Ghoti — I was off making a pot of rice for myself when it occurred to me that you, the sensitive smart person that you are . . . joking. Then I thought, oops.
No worries. I get it.
It’s funny because when I was in college and trying to come up with a thesis idea, one professor told me about how, for the first world’s fair in which Japan participated, there was a lot of evidence that showed how very calculated the Japanese government was in what it presented. There was a very conscious effort to put forward geisha, for example, and to try to ignite the western imagination around these women.
I didn’t end up pursuing this thesis idea, though in some ways I wish I had now. I wasn’t really sophisticated enough at the time to understand what the professor was talking about. But this kind of manipulation has been going on for a long time. It adds a whole layer of complexity to this debate, and obviously the whole “white people oppressing little Asian people” is a very simplistic point of view to take.
Anyway. I’ll stop my brain for now.
I looked at the Youtube link. OMG. I never played janken like that! Yes, it absolutely illustrates what you are talking about. They built the PS3 for that? No wonder the PS2 is still outselling the new console . . .
January 4th, 2007 at 2:03 amOkay, this is my first post here. I usually just jump into these things, so here it is:
This article, “Why Do Foreign Men Like Japan?”, is offensive on so many levels– full of stereotypes and generalizations. Obviously it is particularly offensive to Japanese women, but it’s also offensive to women everywhere. I’m an American woman and I found the author’s tone and attitude abhorrent (maybe I should say “De Mented”?) The author must be some old guy, some relic from the 20th century (although his attitudes are more like something from the 19th century.)
Can we look at the flip side of the coin?
There is a really big trend right now (and it seems to me to be a lasting one) with Western women (especially American women) being very attracted to Japanese men. However, the biggest difference I see here is that Western women aren’t seeing Asian men as objects, unlike this De Mente fellow who is in love with an image and isn’t able to see women as individuals.
Oh, some women may romanticize Japanese men to a certain extent– of course, it’s all that romantic manga/anime that hooks them in the first place, right ;-). But on the whole, this phenomenon (if that’s the right word) of Western women having a strong attraction to Japanese men seems more driven by an individual woman’s attraction to an individual man rather than some fantastical image that they are projecting on them. In other words, generally speaking, Western women are seeing Japanese men as they are and liking them. Unlike this De Mente, who doesn’t seem able to see Japanese women as they are, but would rather content himself with seeing them as he wants them to be. And that’s unfair.
January 4th, 2007 at 2:04 am“There is a really big trend right now (and it seems to me to be a lasting one) with Western women (especially American women) being very attracted to Japanese men.”
Well tricksy_picksy, I hope that you keep posting here for one thing as you sound very smart indeed, and it’s always good to have a woman’s viewpoint in the mix.
I’m curious about the above part of your comment. Do you have evidence? I remember on one trip to Japan, friends kept telling me to find a Japanese boyfriend because they are “very nice” these days (as opposed to the past, apparently). It’d make for an interesting post to expand upon.
January 4th, 2007 at 3:01 amDoes Japundit really overdo salacious topics such as these? Has there been a preponderance of such topics as of late?
As I write this, the following are the topics that are in the “Recent Topics” list.
1. Fanta commercials
2. Using chopsticks
3. Lucky bags
4. Japanese cinema
5. Japanese toilets
6. Kabukicho
7. Emperor’s New Year greetings
8. Letters From Iwo Jima
9. Taiko Drum Festival
11. Engrish
12. Why do Foreign Men like Japan? (this topic)
13. Zen Santa
14. A New Year’s Rant
15. Kohaku wardrobe malfunction
16. Japanese New Year
17. Creepy Korean robot
18. Happy New Year
19. Art
20. Tissue robot
21. Arcade game
22. Free radio broadcast news service
23. Noodle timer
24. Book review
25. Foreign nationals living in Japan
26. Plants
27. Hello Kitty iPod dock
28. Shinnenkai
29. Mitsuo Matayoshi
30. Hentai manga stats
31. Dogs in Japan
January 4th, 2007 at 3:12 amSince you asked, I’ll respond.
I’m thinking of a day like 12/16 (or it might be 12/17) where I looked at Japundit and saw the Santa girls, the hooker post and the flag pole into the girl’s butt picture and thought, “Oh great.”
Sometimes I run into a stream of pictures or posts like that and I’ll think “Oh great.”
Does Japundit overdo the posts?
I wrote: “To repeat myself, my point was simply that I get tired of logging on every morning and seeing and reading yet another post on attitudes toward sex and women in Japan.”
That was extreme on my part. Obviously “every morning” is an exaggeration.
January 4th, 2007 at 3:31 amFapa,
January 4th, 2007 at 3:46 amNo need to get defensive about your lifestyle. I honestly don’t care how you live your life, but I do care when someone uses his very limited personal experience to make sweeping generalizations about a whole different culture or a group of people. Neither do I appreciate the sexist and racist tone of the article.
JP,
January 4th, 2007 at 3:50 amWhen I first came upon Japundit, it did seem to me that many posts here contained women in bikinis. However, as you pointed out, it hasn’t been the case lately (maybe because it’s winter and not summer? .. just joking). Whatever the case, I’m sure there is an audience for that type of posts, which are harmless in most part. But like Mockett, I get tired of those posts really fast when they appear too often and for no other reason except ‘hey, look! Here are a bunch of Japanese girls in bikinis. It’s sooo Japan.”
Hibiscus, where are you? How about sending us something to post about Japan every now and then? It’d be nice to have another girl on board and to present another picture of Japan, which after all, is the best way to keep sure the point of view is as broad (no pun intended) as possible.
January 4th, 2007 at 3:55 amI find it amazing that so many of us Gaijin try and protect the image of Japan.
I dont think there is any doubt that what De Mente says about Japanese selling the image of their women is absolutly true. But that is no different then Canadian or American culture either…
January 4th, 2007 at 6:31 amOverdo? I daresay there are a few that might say Underdo.
January 4th, 2007 at 7:32 amBut then I have noticed a paucity of punnable T-shirt material of late (JP).
No wonder I’m becoming corrupted by all this S-E-X business - it’s most distracting and getting the Ladies all bent out of shape.
Morning all.
January 4th, 2007 at 8:40 amHappy New Year to everyone - a bit belated but I’ve been virused out since NYE and non compos mentis. Back to fighting form now though, just in time to go back to work.
To take up a point Alex raised - about gaijin in Japan eagerly protecting the image of Japan - I, for one, do it from the perspective that yes Japan is a fascinating place and people. But at the same time, let’s not build it up into some mystical playground. There are some 130million(?) people here having a very real life, thanks. Not every Westerner here wants a shiny badge that says “Look at me! I live in Japan!” Some do, evidentally. Others are just trying to get on with life.
For a lot of younger westerners, living ‘away from home’ is something for which they feel they’re due a bit of attention. This is when the picture gets blown out of proportion and strange things happen. When you consider Japan your home, I guess you’ll defend it against the more outlandish attentions and claims.
I exhausted from reading all this. I think we need a forum. It seems all of us have something to say about this, but the conversation will die out once this gets pushed down by other posts.
For the record, I enjoy Maire Mockett’s posts, would like to see more from Hibiscus, and welcome tricksy_pictsy. I would like to see more comments by women, and if it means fewer bikini pics, shouganai.
Though if you ladies could wear bikinis when you write, that would be like totally friggin cool.:mrgreen:
January 4th, 2007 at 11:17 am“Though if you ladies could wear bikinis when you write, that would be like totally friggin cool.”
If global warming persists (no snow in NYC in December for the first time since 1877) you may get your wish.
I appreciate the good will and the good wishes and am glad we have had a “conversation” of sorts.
January 4th, 2007 at 12:11 pmTopics kind of ebb and flow here.
There are times when Japundit looks like it is becoming a Japan politics blog, or a Hello Kitty blog, or a Yasukuni blog, or a Japan-Korea relations blog, or a sex blog, or whatever. But none of these trends ever persist for very long. This is because Japan is a lot of different things, and in covering what’s happening over here we report on a lot of different topics.
Santa girls?
That image was intentionally selected because it went so perfectly with the content of the article, which was about the cheesy, non-spiritual, commercial atmosphere of Christmas in Japan. (Later I found out that the girls in the photo are probably Korean.)
Girls in bikinis?
Sometimes news is slow and our contributors are not contributing, and so I throw up something on a whim.
It’s soooo Japan?
Well. . . That’s exactly the point, isn’t it?
A girl with a flagpole up her butt?
January 4th, 2007 at 12:51 pmUm. . . Er. . . Ah. . . No comment.
A few years back I inexplicably spat out this statement.
“Home!..I want to go Home! (I’m starting feel terribly seasick)”.
But then the words Expatriate and Exile floated into my field of vision.
There is a difference.(I am convinced of this).
I never went looking for Japan - it sought me out.
Sometimes, I hit the deck on my knees and pray & ask - Lord? why not an Inuit/Eskimo?..or maybe a Kalahari BushLady?…
wouldn’t life be so much simpler??.
(probably - but..not as interesting).
Now JP - after that piece of introspective blather
T-Shirts - get thee to a Uniqlo shop,wherever, and please and snap away..(I’m down to my last oxygen bottle).
.
January 4th, 2007 at 2:08 pmI’m on it, Rem!
Stay tuned. . .
January 4th, 2007 at 2:39 pmMarie: my whole upbringing is based (in part) on good manners and respect for women.
My elderly mother occasionally checks into Japundit - to make sure that all that hair-tearing patience & effort has not gone to waste.
(I just thought I’d clarify that point)
Also,thanks for the encouragement to hibiscus.
To advance and evolve - this site must have more input from the “other half of the sky”.
(sorry for the corny quote).
Bring on those T-Shirt’s JP ….:neutral:
January 4th, 2007 at 2:45 pmRemora — I am very happy to occupy half of the sky. Thank you.
January 5th, 2007 at 1:29 amMarie: well the ball is on your side of the tennis court.
It’s very difficult for a bird (Japundit) to fly with one wing or a fish (Japundit)to swim with one fin..if you catch my metaphor’s.
I re-state that it’s a fruitless exercise to split-hairs about the day-to-day idiosyncrocies of Japan from a gender-based perspective.
My very limited understanding of this site is that it is an ensemble production.
As such,all are welcome..and as The First Lady of JapunditLand Marie - (some more than others).
signed
(your humble court jester)
remora.
January 5th, 2007 at 7:59 amThis is really long. I don’t know if there are limits to the messages, so this may end up being more than one post.
“Well tricksy_picksy, I hope that you keep posting here for one thing as you sound very smart indeed, and it’s always good to have a woman’s viewpoint in the mix.”
Marie, thank you for the welcome!
My first name is also Marie. Before I registered here, I looked at the board for a while and saw there was a “Marie” here, so I decided to go with a nickname. Ironic that the first person to respond to my first post is a fellow Marie.
Do I have evidence of the trend I mentioned? Well, nothing scientific, mostly just my own observations. My daughter is my case in point. But I’ll get back to that in a minute.
I did find a couple of sites that reflect what I was talking about. This one — Nihon No Otoko, fan site, http://pure.beautiful-beast.net/jmen/index.php — is a fan site devoted to Japanese men.
Odd URL, but realize that the “beautiful-beast” part is not referring to Japanese men; that is just the host site. The woman who has the site doesn’t say what her nationality or race is, but whoever she is, she makes it clear that she, and others, are crazy about Japanese men. Fetish or honest interest? Both? I don’t know, but here’s what she says, ” Okay why did I decide to make a fanlisting dedicated to Japanese men? Well, mainly because all the Japanese men that I know of are just so…how do I say this…hot!!! Seriously, they’ve gotta be the most sexiest people on this earth and I’d marry a Japanese man like Gackt instead of Brad Pitt anyday. (No offense to you Mr. Pitt) Whenever I see them, they just make me smile and it’s always a joy to stare at one of my Gackt’s CD’s whenever I’m down.”
So this woman certainly supports my point.
Now this one — Caroline Pover, http://www.weekender.co.jp/new/040130/broadperspective.html — Okay, realize that I don’t necessarily agree with everything this woman is saying, but I use her article as an example because she does mention that she has observed this trend of white women being attracted to Asian men. Granted, it’s a small trend, but I think it’s growing.
One more site — Asian Week, Threatened Manhood, http://www.asianweek.com/2000_02_03/feature_asianmale.html — This article doesn’t necessarily support my point; if anything, it negates it. However, it does mention the views of some Asian men (Chinese, in this article) and the stereotypes they have encountered. I’ve heard these stereotypes before, too: “media bombards society with images of Asian men as either ’stern and misogynist’ or ‘effeminate and nerdy.’ ” Yes, those impressions, and worse, are out there. But I think these attitudes are changing, for a variety of reasons.
Which brings me back to my daughter. She just turned 13. Her heritage is a mix of caucasian nationalities and she is very fair skinned, like me, and has blond hair and blue eyes, like her dad. In many ways a “typical” Caucasian. She, and her friends, are just starting that “boy crazy” stage. Put a good-looking white boy in front of them and they gush, “Oh, he’s cute!” — in this context, what they mean by “cute” is “handsome” — put a Japanese boy in front of them and they don’t just gush, they go insane! They scream and squeal and nearly swoon. No exaggeration. Just say the word “samurai” and they burst into song. They don’t subscribe to the old stereotypes at all. In fact, they seem to have a whole new image of Asian males, which probably could be considered a new stereotype, but at least it’s a much more positive one than those mentioned above. Instead of getting their stereotypes about Asians from the established American culture, they are getting these new impressions from manga/anime — heroic impressions, pop star impressions. Maybe American boys are getting new stereotypes and impressions of Asian girls, too; I don’t know. I just observe my daughter and her friends.
Where did her obsession come from? We live in a very small town, so small it’s actually classified as a village. When we moved here nearly 20 years ago, it was very homogenous, predominantly middle class white people. That isn’t why we moved here. I would have preferred a more mixed town, but at the time housing was cheap here. Anyway, it’s getting more diverse here, but still, we have few, if any, Japanese families. If some do move here and they have good looking sons, for the boys’ safety, I’ll have to put a lock on my daughter’s bedroom door! No telling what she might do to them.
Just today when we were coming out of a store, a young man was walking in and (after he went past, because she’s still shy) she got excited and said, “Ooooh, cute Asian high school boy!” over and over. I told her I’d tie her down so the young man could get a head start on escaping. 
Joking aside, what I was getting at was that my daughter hasn’t grown up in a diverse neighborhood and right here in town there aren’t any Japanese families, but my daughter is obsessed with all things Japanese, boys included. Sure, I’m always going on about diversity, but that doesn’t explain to me where she and her friends get this intense interest. And it isn’t a new thing. She has been interested in Japanese culture and people since she was old enough to understand the concept of countries and nationalities — about 5 or 6 years old. Maybe it all started with Pokemon? Who knows.
I’d like to hear other peoples’ ideas about this. Here are my theories:
1. I hear my daughter and her friends raving over some Japanese pop star (they listen to the music of the female Japanese pop stars, too, but of course they react in a different, more extreme manner to the young men) so I ask myself “what is all the fuss about?” So I look. Oh my god. A lot of these men are really gorgeous! There is definitely something captivating about them. How did I miss this? I understand why my daughter and her friends find them so attractive. Example: right now on the main page of this site is a picture of a poster for a new show called Fuurinkazan and the poster shows this really handsome Japanese man. Now that’s what I’m talking about! Geez, if I was single. . . Now don’t get the wrong impression, I’m happily married, but just say if I’d never met the man I’m married to now and I was single, and I met a Japanese man like the actor on that poster, oh hell YES! I love his eyes. Okay I can only see one of his eyes and there is a sword in front of his face, but it doesn’t matter, I can tell he’s good looking — his eyes, the shape of his face, and oooh, his hair! That heroic pose just adds to the image. And I’ve seen quite a few others, here and there. Yeah, I understand the attraction.
But why didn’t I realize this before? Well, because they weren’t here before. I mean here where I live. I met very few Japanese people when I was growing up. I rarely, if ever, saw Asian/White couples. Now I don’t see a whole lot, but I do see them. And not just romantic couples, but groups of friends. When I go to the larger malls I see more mixed groups of kids hanging out together. I remember back in the ’80s, when I was a teenager, I heard that American culture was becoming very popular in Japan and after that I observed that we were slowly but surely becoming interested in Japanese culture, too. Also, over the past 10 years a lot more Japanese companies have come over here, especially in the region where I live, which is Southeast Michigan, “Auto Capital of the World”. There is a fairly new Mazda plant in a town not too far away, plus a lot of other Japanese businesses. And sushi restaurants are popping up all over. So I think part of the interest is due to the fact that we happen to be meeting more Japanese people than ever before. Of course, also back in the ’80s, there was a lot of animosity toward the Japanese because they were big competition in the auto industry. If you worked at GM, Ford, or Chrysler you couldn’t park a Japanese car (or other foreign car for that matter) in the parking lot or it might get smashed. Well, the Big Three auto companies are still in competition with the Japanese automakers, but most of the animosity is gone. This may be because Japanese companies provide a lot of employment here now at a time when the Big Three are laying people off left and right. Plus, it may go back to the pop culture thing — exchanging culture has given us things in common, ways to start a conversation: “Hey, have you read the newest volume of Inuyasha yet?”
2. Okay, this is getting long so I’ll get to my next idea. Decades ago, yet still within the lifetimes of our fathers or grandfathers, our countries fought a horrible war against each other. To me, one reason wars happen is because of imbalance. By getting past stereotypes and getting to know each other, either romantically or just as friends, we are restoring that balance. My husband’s father is a WWII vet, wounded at Saipan and Iwo Jima. He rarely talks about the war, so I don’t know if he harbors prejudices or resentments. In some ways he seems to and in some ways he doesn’t. But whatever he thinks or feels about Japan now, his youngest granddaughter is deeply interested in Japanese culture and people. Is that irony or a restoration of balance?
Long after a war is officially over, negative attitudes and stereotypes remain among people of both sides for a long time. Intermixing and intermarrying are things that truly and finally end a war. It seems that people who were once enemies often end up eventually mixing. I’m a result of such mixing since my ancestors were all people who at some time were at war with each other, but are at peace (more or less) with each other now: English, Scottish, French, Danish. My personal opinion is that, consciously or unconsciously, people are drawn to each other and mix together to restore balance.
I could go on, but I’ve probably babbled long enough for now. I hope it isn’t too choppy. I’ve had to stop and do other things while writing this.
January 6th, 2007 at 7:11 amtricksy_pictsy: Olaha! mrs remora (Arden) is not too keen on that Gackt-chap.. but my eldest sprog Osamu (sammy remora) is more in the Tadanobu-look department, although he’s only 11 years old, and not quite at the Age of Shaving.
Have you any advice to impart as to his personal grooming,et al ??.
January 6th, 2007 at 8:46 amAh, now I know who Arden is! なうほどねえええ！
January 6th, 2007 at 9:02 amYou may continue.
That of course isn’t how you spell なるほど.
January 6th, 2007 at 9:03 amShe nagged me (as they do) to set up Arden ,then decided she’d rather ghostwrite remora to avoid any unpleasant difference’s of opinion - (you know rocking the S.S. Harmony).
Anyway, wot about Dakar??.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/calendar/default.stm
January 6th, 2007 at 9:14 amYou mean some of the remoring wasn’t you? That makes me a little more confused than I was before. No clue on rallying, old boy. I’l leave that to you perhaps.
January 6th, 2007 at 9:33 ampunwise-moi/otherwise all Arden.
I’ve only spotted two of our homegrown (Japanese) entrants so far but, there has to be more, will pursue this and report back.
January 6th, 2007 at 9:41 amHow odd.
January 6th, 2007 at 9:45 amLike founding out the woman you’re dating is in fact twins.
No, that doesn’t quite work, does it. Clones, perhaps, might be a better analogy. Perhaps I should have some coffee. Perhaps I should get dressed and go to work. So many possibilities.
o.k. - so the discussion originally was about the attraction of Foreign men to Japan - but then somewhere.. mysteriously,it all broadened out into Asian Women & Foreign Men.
well..there’s Baron Rupert & Wendi(Deng)of Wapping.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendi_Deng
our favourite film-maker. Woody & Soon-Yi_Previn Allen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soon-Yi_Previn
Max Klinger & Soon Lee (see MASH).
and while I’m blagging on about this (JP) - you & your job sometimes reminds me of Col.Henry Blake.(MASH)
http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/M/htmlM/mash/mash.htm
a really nice guy - stuck in an awful situation.
invite comment.
January 6th, 2007 at 12:11 pmAkira Fuse & Olivia Hussey…
January 6th, 2007 at 12:53 pmMasao Sen & Joan Shepherd…
So George Takei (Sulu) doesn’t count Mr Pink ??.
January 6th, 2007 at 1:05 pm(great remora) - Now it’s nisei guys & gaijin significant others! - (what a wheeze!).
January 6th, 2007 at 1:12 pmYou aren’t dressed?
January 6th, 2007 at 2:57 pmBeam me up, Remora. No idea who he’s tied to.
January 6th, 2007 at 3:20 pmMr Pink: decidedly off-topic, but Brad Altman is George Takei’s partner.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9845944
January 7th, 2007 at 8:24 am“No clue on rallying, old boy” (overoften) - well I thought based on some of your recent descriptions of the perils of driving in Japan, that it was akin to being in a rally - albeit,not a Dakar but somewhere close to it.
Still in the meantime, I’m probably more interested in the progress of our famous..
“A JAPANESE research team plans to enter a race car in the Dakar rally that runs on cooking oil used to fry food.
The Toyota Land Cruiser 100 will be the first car completely powered by biodiesel to enter the event, said Hidefumi Onaka, a lecturer at the Osaka Sangyo University, which helped test the fuel. ”
As the headline goes - their off to a Frying Start!!
January 7th, 2007 at 8:55 amwhilst still staying on the page with this buttock-clenching topic of Western Men and Japan.
January 7th, 2007 at 9:14 am..if John Lennon was the egg-man (goo goo g’joob) does that make her Yolk-o Ono..??
Well its taken 67 posts but we are officially off-topic!
January 7th, 2007 at 10:17 amI think it’s official; Remora’s brain is fried, scrambled, poached, hard-boiled — and the yolk’s on us…
January 7th, 2007 at 10:34 amTricksy_picksy aka Marie, welcome aboard.
I wanted to wait until I had more time to write you back a thoughtful response, given how much you put into this post. At this point I’ll just say thank you and that your observations are extremely interesting. I particularly find your descriptions of your daughter and friend’s behavior to be very interesting indeed.
To add to your point, I was surprised a few years ago to see in the DK Eyewitness guidebook to New York that sushi was listed as a “typical” New York food, which it really is. I suppose that’s some evidence too of the spread of Japanese culture. But your post brings it home more somehow.
Thanks so much for sharing and posting and I hope you stick around!
Perhaps your ideas deserve a post of their own . . .
January 7th, 2007 at 10:45 amMr.Pink: (a subtle piece of side-stepping) but we do not seem to be close to closure on this thorny issue of Foreign Men & Japan.
For myself,I think I’ve outlined well enough,how I crashlanded into this parallel/looking glass world of zipang
By the way you missed a few - overeasy,par-boiled…and Eggs Benedict.
January 7th, 2007 at 11:12 am>9. Japan is very feminine by nature, with strong >appreciation for culture, fashion and arts. Even >the men here are often very well dressed and >softly spoken. Back home (North QLD), it’s the >extreme opposite.
>
>Comment by riki — 1/2/2007 @ 7:09 pm
I strongly disagree that Japan is “very feminine by nature.” I would say Japan is rather “very closeted homosexual by nature.” There is an important difference.
March 2nd, 2007 at 1:57 pm