Living in Japan means adapting to many things, not the least of which is modifying your native language.
When I first got to Japan, I was told I spoke incredibly fast, and my students begged me to speak more clearly so they could understand what I was saying. Before I knew it, I was speaking “too” slowly, prompting my mother to ask me what was wrong when I talked to her on the phone.
In my own personal dialect of Southern Californian English, I’d always referred to the thing you blow your nose with as a Kleenex, but in Japan, no one knew what I was talking about so I quickly reverted to “tissue.” I’ve learned to order a “Happy Set” for the kids at McDonald’s instead of a Happy Meal, and when I need to get some money out of my bank account I drop by the “Cash Corner,” or the ATM. I’ve also learned that the word “sauna” has three syllables, not two.
Many Western foods seem to have morphed into some pretty odd forms here. For example, when it’s hot out, I might reach for some “ice” (what ice cream is usually called), and if I go to the local amusement park with my kids I might buy them each an “American Dog” (a corn dog) and “fried potato” (french fries) before we ride the “jet coaster” (roller coaster). Although these terms always feel odd at first, it’s spooky how easy it is for your brain to get used to them.
Wonderful post. It’s actually not about Engrish, but about Japanese. Here in Japan, English is invading Japanese language in very strange manner. People here japanize English and put it into Japanese with Katakana(Japanese alphabet) pronunciation and adding a new meaning. I give you some examples.
They often use the word ‘meritto’ in Japanese its original comes from ‘merit’. And instead of saying it’s a benefit of doing something, it’s a merit of doing something. In English it sounds strange. Instead of rear mirror ‘back miraa’ , instead of exaggeration ‘oobaa’ its original comes from over. etc, etc….. I can give you thousands of examples. I think they are destroying their own language by doing so.
I hope Japanese people start protecting their own language from English like French people are doing it about French language in France.
Thought-provoking post and comment above. I have to say though that I’d be wary of entrusting the Japanese language to an official government institution. I figure that linguistic evolution should be natural rather than mandated. That said, however, I do agree that there are too many perfectly good Japanese words being supplanted by English these days.
Hi, Peter!
Here comes a japanese now learning spoken English welcomed or not. I’ve now really enjoyed reading your article. I’d like to say we also have the same kind of (or another side of) problem vice versa. We Japanese believe that all the Katakana-ed words would be close imitations to the original English but rather not as you pointed out clearly.
I’ll never forget the first time I heard Los Angeles referred to as “Los.” I said to my grandfather, “But that’s like calling Tokyo ‘the.’”
I enjoyed this post too. My English gets really bizarre the more time I spend in Japan. I move my clauses around within sentences and end up feeling fluent in neither language.
Ryo, I do not quite agree with your opinion. What’s going on here is not something like natural linguistic evolution nor Japanese words being supplanted by English. I mean it because most Katakana-lized(Japanized) words have different meanings from their English originals. As long as the supplanter is done properly, it’s OK. But people use odd Engrish words instead of perfectly good Japanese words.
And I think the official government institution of Japanese language is not functioning. I am posting my comment here since some Japanese readers are in the educational positions.
One of the things that I always admired about Japanese was the very existence of katakana. It makes it clear that a word has come from some other language.
“As long as the supplanter is done properly, it’s OK. But people use odd Engrish words instead of perfectly good Japanese words.”
Very interesting. This was always my mother’s opinion too. I’ve become more used to Engrish, so it doesn’t bother me as much. Also, it isn’t as though Americans are particularly good at pronouncing or using Japanese.
Haha, forgot about Los.
Really, when you look at all other countries, I think you’ll see that this is natural. Hong Kong English is bizarre because it’s altered locally to fit the sensibilities of the people there. Indian English is probably the same, and there’s probably “Inglish” out there, who knows ^_^ Lord knows we Americans mangle Japanese when we import it, changing the meanings (manga being a book rather than either book or animated entertainment, changing the meaning of ‘hentai’ and so on).
Nothing wrong with languages evolving by taking in outside influences. English, for example, is full of french words and all the richer for it!
Modern Japanese language wouldn’t be the same without all the English and other words (err… baito = part time work - from the german arbeit… or something).
Just try and imagine Japanese cuisine without foreign appropriations. Some have been so severely Japanacised that many people don’t even realise that their origins are outside of Japan.
Tempura is the classic case in point, not only the dish itself, but the word is Portugese. Yet there are even Kanji for it nowadays. Will other ‘borrowed’ words in time be granted their own kanji? It’s possible and natural.
…and Marie, what’s so great about katakana? The English language uses italics in a very similar fashion. We have them to identify foreign words (as with katakana) or also to emphasise a certain word (again, like katakana).
I’ll admit, though. Katakana look cooler than italics.
“Tempura is the classic case in point, not only the dish itself, but the word is Portuguese. Yet there are even kanji for it nowadays. Will other ‘borrowed’ words in time be granted their own kanji? It’s possible and natural.”
Had no idea. Nice to know!
Quebec English has unique things, too. Fer instance: I *still* say ‘open/close the light’ instead of ‘turn on/off the light’, ‘me, I loved my Expos’ (I loved my Expos:cry:) and all kobinis are still ‘deps’ (depanneurs) to me.
If I really get going with some old friends, the language gets stranger and stranger - ‘Fr-ang-lish’-y with a twist of Italian New Jersey-ish accents.
The French I know who’ve visited Quebec are always amused (and kind of flummoxed) when the typical response to ‘merci’ (thank you) is ‘bienvenue’ (a literal translation of the English word ‘welcome’) while in France it’s ‘de rien’ (’it’s nothing’). The French think Quebecers are soooo quaint
I’m really surprised there aren’t more Frenglais words out there… . Sometimes, right in the middle of a sentence, I’ll completely loose the English word and end up staring into space trying to figure out what the hell it is. Or I’ll be standing there in the grocery aisle asking the guy where the hell the poirvrons (peppers) and ciboulette (chives) are… and the essaie-touts (paper towels). Said without a French accent since that’s been ground out of me since I left the province. But I can’t think of any Franglais words at all. Weird, that.
On this wet West Coast, people honestly and without a smidgen of irony, say ‘right on’ (with slight bob of head). This has nothing to do with the discussion - it just still bemuses me.
But, back to Japanese. The think I like about it is that it does account for foreign influences and uses katakana-ed words. It seems much more natural than what the Quebec government language agency insists upon - using French terms that few people use anyway (i.e. ‘email’ is suppose to be ‘couriel électronique’… not that I know anyone who uses it unless they have to in writing thing the Government might get their hands on).
What I never really got was how some Engrish words came from such imprecise English words and how these words spread even though every native English speaker may have winced when hearing it for the first time early in its introductionary period.
Is it a case of a defiant allophone (non-anglophone) continually using the word, even knowing that the English portion was imprecise because, well, he didn’t care about the imprecision as much as the allusion the imprecise word gave?
Or is it the emergence of an Engrish word a display of a simple misunderstanding of the English portion of the word?
Ooooh… look! Foil glittering in garbage can… must go investigate :::wanders off in daze:::.
I have a friend (who lives in Kyushu), who makes it a point of honor to avoid using gairaigo (imported words) and use only the proper Japanese equivalent (shashinki for camera, bokangi for coat, etc.) Though a little eccentric, talking with this guy has helped to expand my vocabulary.
Sounds interesting Mr.JP, I’ve enjoyed all of your Podcast Programs #1 to #67. I was born 2 years before you came here, so many things you mentioned ever in your program often reminded me of some good old days of SHOWA culture.
It is interesting to know that your friend avoids to using gairaigo, but If I met him, I would feel he’s gone too far and I would wonder if he is one of the right-wing extremists cause they did so during the WW2.
berocca,
re: “Tempura is the classic case in point, not only the dish itself, but the word is Portugese. Yet there are even Kanji for it nowadays.”
Actually, it was the other way around. The kanji were used to write the word “tempura” long ago when the dish first came to Japan; writing it in kanji isn’t something that happened recently.
The practice of writing borrowed words in kanji regardless of what the kanji mean is called “ateji” in Japanese. The kanji for tempura is almost never used nowadays, except by restaurants that are trying to be “posh.”
“Spaghetti” can be written in kanji as “western noodles” (yo-men, in kanji). I saw that recently on the sign for an Italian restaurant. Sort of the throw-back to the good ole Meiji days of yore!
Long ago (late-Edo - 1945), most foreign countries were written in “ateji” kanji. That’s why “America” is written with the kanji for rice (”kome”) and the kanji for country: the kanji for rice can be pronounced “me(i),” so it was used for the “me” in “America.”
By the way, actually there IS a government agency that “controls” the use of katakana borrowed words. The National Institute for Japanese Language (in Japanese, kokuritsu kokugo kenkyusho) regularly publishes a list of native Japanese alternatives they suggest be used in place of katakana-words. See the latest list at: http://www.kokken.go.jp/public/gairaigo/ (Japanese only, errrr, of course!)
I think that in a globalized, borderless, Internetted world, all languages can come together with new coinages and borrowings, and it will all be for the good of everyone. English speakers say tofu and sushi and shabu shabu and sake and karaoke and merci beaucoup and c’est la vie and gezundheit and ciao and l’chayim and salam aleikem and cho dofu, so it’s natural for Japanese to use more and more English and French and German and Chinese words in their everyday speech. The French should not be afraid of English, and neither should the Japanese. It’s a one world language now, and it’s fun!
Peter wrote: “When I first got to Japan, I was told I spoke incredibly fast, and my students begged me to speak more clearly so they could understand what I was saying. Before I knew it, I was speaking “too” slowly, prompting my mother to ask me what was wrong when I talked to her on the phone.”
This is SO true. After 15 years in Asia, I speak a new kind of English, much slower than before, as you said, and the Boston accent has been lost to a new mixed accent, which even I cannot place when I hear my words on tape. What happened?
I think it is actually good for Japanese, that it so happily assimilates loan words. It certainly proves that the language is alive, and vital, because only a dead thing doesn’t change.
And even though many of the words are funny as people have pointed out, they fill their need, don’t they.
I really like Hiragana and Katakana, and have always wondered if it really did develop in isolation from roman characters, as my Sensei claimed.
When we say Rondayvoo, I bet it sounds funny to the French?. I KNOW that when Americans say trunk, I always smile, a trunk is what a Heffalump picks up his peanuts with. However, in revenge, Americans always laugh when they hear a Kiwi say “Boot”, because a boot is footwear, not part of your car.
ppayne mentioned the Indians maybe having Ingrish, I don’t know about that but we do have community TV shows here in Hindi, and sometimes they will be delivering their lines earnestly and suddenly you hear “nanni nanni nanni very seriously nanni nanni, my word”
*wanders away to eat his Yo-Men and chicken*
Sounds interesting Mr.JP, I’ve enjoyed all of your Podcast Programs #1 to #67. I was born 2 years before you came here, so many things you mentioned ever in your program often reminded me of some good old days of SHOWA culture.
Itobun. Thanks for the kind words. I’m a big fan of the late Showa Era myself, when life in Japan was so genki. Many of the great things I admired about the way Japan was when I first got here no longer exist.
It is interesting to know that your friend avoids to using gairaigo, but If I met him, I would feel he’s gone too far and I would wonder if he is one of the right-wing extremists cause they did so during the WW2.
One other speaking habit of his is always to refer to Japan a Nipppon, and never Nihon. (I intentionally added the extra “p” because that is the way he pronounces it.)
I don’t think he is really that nationalistic, but actually just kind of strange.
” English speakers say tofu and sushi and shabu shabu and sake and karaoke and merci beaucoup and c’est la vie and Gesundheit. ” So far so good.
All the Japanese understand the words “tofu, sushi, shabu shabu, sake and karaoke” , as they are Japanese.
All the French understand the words ” merci beaucoup, c’est la vie and boulevard ” , as they are French.
And all the German understand the words ” Gesundheit, Wunderkind and Kindergarten ” , as they are German.
As of Tempura. There was probably nothing like cutlet or chop at that time in Japan when Portuguese imported it to Japan in 16th century. So that was understandable.
As of shashinki for camera, bohkangi for coat. It’s kamera and kohto in Japanese and that is just the same as Americans are pronouncing “carry o key” for karaoke. It’s OK, too.
But it’s an another story about Engrish. So many Engrish words are being katakana-ed in Japanese language. And Engrish is neither English nor Japanese. That is the point which bothers me. Japundit picks this item “Engrish ” and it has a certain reason. Moreover, the embarrassing thing is
that so many people in Japan believe those Engrish are proper English ! It’s not funny.
I want to know whether French people really use French translations daily ? Do they call “Hot Dog” or “Chaud Chien” ? I am fond of the attitude of French people about their language. I heard there were once about 6 thousand languages in the world, but now more than 80% of them are supposed to disappear in 100 years. English and other dominating languages will replace them.
So I feel sorry about people(including myself) using too often Gairaigo(imported words). Japanese language is losing its old good nuances and beauties. I like those people trying to use shashinki or bohkangi instead of kamera or kohto(camera or coat).
Makes me wonder what English would be like if Harold and the Saxons (Hey –great 60’s band name?) had won in 1066. The Normans wouldn’t have given us all those Old French loan words…and English might not have diverged so much from its Germanic roots.
I feel for you Peter: it only gets worse as you stay longer. I have trouble remembering the friggin’ months in English these days! There are certain words I never learned in English — some related to my job, or names of fish. And of course, I don’t pick up any new (American) slang. At any rate, it takes me about a week of being back in the States before I can speak fluent English.
there is an excellent book on this topic:
Japanese English Language and Culture Contact by James Stanlaw
I’ll admit, though. Katakana look cooler than italics.
It’s the age of design. It’s all about looking cooler.
“there is an excellent book on this topic:
Japanese English Language and Culture Contact by James Stanlaw”
Another one for the reading list!
I ended up with the same problem, Peter. Slowly spoken English. Of course, I also lost the ability to get many English sayings right…and some Japanese words invaded my English. I’ve also noticed a lot of Brits shorten “Shinkansen” to “Shink” rather than use the typical English term “Bullet Train”.
I love the Japanese import words for car parts. The front is the “bonnet” (British English) and the back is the “trunk” (American English). One time when my car broke down it took me a while to figure out what a “dynamo” was, because it came from the British English word.
Another one that always gets me is “service” which means something “free” (usually from a business) in Japanese, but is the help or how you’re taken care of in a business in English (ok, so my English definition of service is sorely lacking).
Some of the more bizarre ones come from the Japanese tendency to shorten words, even Japanese ones, but the result in loan words often completely replaces the original. These are often the ones that I notice causing the problems TofuUnion is mentioning (like building->biru).
As for English mangling Japanese, don’t forget about Toh-key-oh (Tokyo) and Key-oh-to (Kyoto).
Historical view :
Without alterations of Latin or ancient Greek, old Frank French or old German hadn’t existed, let alone today’s European languages.
If ancient Japan didn’t borrow Chinese characters(Kanji) to write its own language and didn’t invent Hiragana and Katakana from Kanji , we wouldn’t have the same Japanese as we have now. The whole Japanese writing words are completely “not purely original”.
Korean started with borrowing Kanji but they invented later their own original alphabet. They are people of the pride. But there is also an argument in South Korea they should use more Kanji for enrichment of their language.
“Nothing wrong with languages evolving by taking in outside influences. English, for example, is full of French words and all the richer for it ! ” Yes, I have nothing against that in general.
Back to today :
However on the other hand it’s very true some people like me cannot stand strange manner of evolution of Japanese by taking outside influences. To make you understand better I give you some more examples.
For example. Japanese translation of Condominium is “Mansion” and Apartment for Rent is “Apaato(Apart)”. I assume “Mansion” has started as a business expression to put sugar to the word “Flat or Apartment” for sell. Now we don’t have another appropriate Japanese translations for ordinary Condominium and Apartment for Rent.
Another one. “Baito or Arubaito” which is a Japanese translation of part time job. I’m sure this has been started as a slung of students who learned German word “Arbeit (work in English) ” pronouciated as “arubaito”. There is also another Japanese word “paato” which is part(time job). Today, I think “Baito” means second job or supplemental work and paato(part time job) means job with limit working hours mostly used for working house wives.
The last one. I don’t know any more how to express “to make love” in proper Japanese in daily conversation today. (Sorry for a bad example.) To make is “suru” and we nowadays say “Sex suru” or “H suru” in Japanese (to make Sex or to make H). “H” will be pronouciated as ecchi (not eich). I don’t know why H is being used, but maybe it’s relating to Hentai(perverse). If you try to say it without using word Sex or H (which are English), it sounds bizarre or old fashioned. I’m sure your partner will laugh. I think it was initially a joke or a kind of indirect saying of a young person to avoid expressing it too straight with using Japanese word. I wonder how it spread. Now we don’t use old rich Japanese expression for it anymore. (Only in formal case.)
The original English words alter in such strange ways. If you are once aware of the fact that the mangling is so odd, it’s getting difficult for you to forget all about that. But I will try to get used to it. Thanks for reading.
Yes, RTN, it can be embarrassing. My daughter once got a splinter in her finger and I stupidly said (in front of my American family), “Oh no, you’ve got a thorn!” (same word in Japanese). I also am capable of messing up “mother in law” and “stepmother” (both the same in Japanese) if I’m not careful. Hazukashii…
SHINK for Shinkansen by British speakers in Japan. That is one for the books! That is great! Have any of the British newspapers written about this new coinage? It’s fantastic. I love it! Let’s take the shink to Osaka.
Somebody tell Richard Llodd Parry at his newspaper office. This deserves a good feature story!~
How Living Overseas Changes Your English
Peter at Japundit has a post on how living in Japan changes your English, noting that his speech slowed down and he eventually substituted words that he normally used with words more common in Japan (e.g., “tissue” rather than “Kleenex,” etc.)….
My all-time favorite for an abbreviated imported word is in-man. I was doing a translation and it was in-man this and in-man that. I must say that I laughed ever time I saw it, because it sounds like some dirty word.
Finally I asked the client, who informed me that it means “intake manifold.”