Envy - Don’t leave home without it
08/30/2007 @ 12:00 pm
A JAPUNDIT reader who is also a long-term resident of Japan sends in the following passage by Helmut Schoeck in his masterpiece Envy: A Theory of Social Behavior:
In primitive societies, “No one dares to show anything that might lead people to think he was better off. Innovations are unlikely. Agricultural methods remain traditional and primitive, to the detriment of the whole village, because every deviation from previous practice comes up against the limitations set by envy.”
And then asks if it makes us think of any society in particular. . .
I take it that primitive societies don’t carry Louis Vuitton handbags or buy designer dog clothing.
August 30th, 2007 at 12:23 pmThat’s a very simplistic way of describing that particular facet of social interaction and it’s effects, primitive cultures or not.. I’m sure it gets fleshed out more in the book but since Japan is now supposedly the world’s top innovator I’m not sure how this idea would apply?
August 30th, 2007 at 12:33 pmNorth Korea, right? I bet it’s North Korea.
Or Belgium.
August 30th, 2007 at 12:50 pmThis is just a guess now . . The particular long term resident of Japan in question . . . does he make us think of any carping, egotistical, arrogant society in particular, with his question?.
I have an alternate subtitle for the book.
Envy, A Theory grasped at by people who don’t want to listen to criticism.
August 30th, 2007 at 1:08 pmI’m not sure that “No one dares to show anything that might lead people to think he was better off” could be applied to Japan where the mainstream appears to a large extent to worship conspicuous wealth and spending.
August 30th, 2007 at 2:03 pmHey, Tigger, watch out for the deep end there.
August 30th, 2007 at 4:15 pmTigger, you mean New Zealand?
August 30th, 2007 at 4:33 pmSpending in Japan is still relatively subdued, and people generally avoid the appearance of wealth. Louis Vuitton bags don’t indicate wealth in Japan, as even teenagers carry them. I know very wealthy people who live in nondescript houses - most of them, in fact.
From the passage quoted, the author doesn’t necessarily equate lack of ostentation with lack of innovation. As I read it, those are simply two characteristics of what he calls primitive societies.
August 30th, 2007 at 4:45 pmI hate to say there are less wealth gaps in primitive societies. Logically you got to say ” It won’t likely happen for someone to show anything that might lead people to think he was better off. But modernization and industrialization are unlikely. ”
” The methods of any traditional agricultural community remain primitive to some degree, to the detriment of the whole village, because every deviation from previous practice comes up against the limitations set by envy. ”
In Japan the memory of traditional community is still alive and very wealthy people tend to hide the fact.
August 30th, 2007 at 6:31 pm“I hate to say there are less wealth gaps in primitive societies.”
Well, that’s a very good point! The difference between a rich and a poor villager might be a half dozen potatoes.
August 30th, 2007 at 6:46 pm“Louis Vuitton bags don’t indicate wealth in Japan, as even teenagers carry them.”
Riiiiight. And this is a sign of a healthy consumer culture? The other day, someone called me from Japan absolutely desperate for a particular Ralph Lauren shirt, because their original (bought in Hawaii) had been destroyed in the laundry. This person was absolutely desperate to have the shirt replaced, because it was so cool and unusual and the logo was so prominently displayed, and it was fun to have people walk up to him and ask; “Wow! Where did you get that Ralph Lauren shirt!?” Needless to say, the shirt has long since disappeared from American shelves and I couldn’t help.
Anyway, I think there was an older generation that didn’t flaunt its wealth. The new one, though, isn’t necessarily bling bling, but is so brand conscious, it hurts.
August 30th, 2007 at 10:21 pmWellll, I am not sure that consumerism constitutes any culture, let alone a healthy one. But, I think we are talking at cross porpoises here, as remora might say.
Wanting to have a trendy brand, or conversely, wanting to stand out by appearing as though as a Salvation Army box exploded on you, are different from trying to show wealth. I have never heard a Japanese assume another to be rich by they clothes they wear. Even an expensive car is not all that outstanding here.
Japanese are more in love wth surface appearances, I’ll agree. Showing off wealth, though, is still considered crass and narikin behavior. And it takes a lot of effort.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:10 amDo I ghoti?.
Is that where you think he came from, to be calling Japans social cohesion “Envy”?.
I don’t think you DO think that though. I know of only one people in the world who throw around the “Envy” label, and they always do it when they have been called on one of their acts of arrogance.
August 31st, 2007 at 9:23 amSorry, Tigger, I don’t get your post, or all the references to envy. What is this envy you speak of?
August 31st, 2007 at 9:03 pm